Extending 1m beyond party wall.

[oldskoolflash]

Hi all,

 

Apologies if this has come up before, I did try searching beforehand but could not find an answer to this particular query.

 

We have a Victorian end of terrace house that previously had planning permission for a side return extension. I has also had a loft conversion prior to us buying (and therefore a party wall award).

 

We want to extend 1m further but I wondered how this would affect the party wall. In my limited knowledge, I think we have 2 options:

 

1) Extend along the length of the party wall and then step in 150mm from the boundary for the final 1m

 

2) Ask if the neighbour would be happy for us to extend the party wall allowing them (or a future owner) a party wall to build up to should they wish.

 

Does this sound correct? I know each case is individual but from people's experience, am  I making some wild assumptions with opt 2?

 

I've attached a clip of the area, the dashed lines obviously being the existing structure (which is a small kitchen extension mirrored on both sides).

 

Thanks in advance!

 

 

[Mr Punter]

It would be up to you neighbour if they choose to consent to you building on their land.  You have shown this as a solid wall but it will probably be a cavity wall so may step in a bit more.  You would also need their consent and an easement if you have any gutters etc.  I don't know how option 2 would work as you would need your roof to cover the new wall, unless it is built as a parapet.

[oldskoolflash]

Thanks Mr P - The walls shown on the plan are just concept so are 300mm, but yes it would be a cavity wall. I was going to build a parapet and have a flat roof, something like the attached (which doesn't show the neighbours extension which is currently 1m back).

[Simplysimon]

no part of your build is allowed to encroach onto your neighbours, this includes the foundations. once the founds are in you will need to be back from party wall for your wall.

[Temp]

9 minutes ago, Simplysimon said:

no part of your build is allowed to encroach onto your neighbours, this includes the foundations. once the founds are in you will need to be back from party wall for your wall.

 

That's not quite correct. Nothing above ground must encroach or overhang the boundary but foundations can encroach on a neighbours land subject to you giving notice. Needless to say the neighbour may not like this but see...

 

http://www.partywalladvice.com/2009/08/02/73/

 

 

[Simplysimon]

up here i wasn't allowed the founds to encroach

[Temp]

That will teach you to go all independent :-)

[Simplysimon]

iirc we didn't.........

[oldskoolflash]

Thanks for the replies. We have only just moved in so we are going to take our time, we don't want to upset anyone. The neighbours seem decent, and they didn't object to the party wall award with the previous owners (although that is no guarantee they won't object this time). I wouldn't have thought that they would be considering extending themselves as they are elderly -ish so I'm not sure they will see any benefit in having a wall on their land where they didn't have one before. Who knows, all we can do is ask and hopefully find the least disruptive solution that everyone is happy with.

[oldskoolflash]

 

Temp - reading that link raises another interesting point about the foundations if they  (or a future buyer) wanted to extend. It would be a lot simpler/cheaper with a wall already there. They may, of course, not care one bit about this if they have zero intention of extending!

 

"If you were to build a similar extension in the future you would have the right to cut off the part of your neighbour's foundations that project – subject to serving the required notice. If you are thinking of building a similar extension you may want to suggest to your neighbour that he builds a new party wall astride the boundary – this would require your consent under section 1(2) of the Act but you would then be entitled to use it as part of your future extension. You would have to contribute towards the cost of building the wall – either now or when you make use of it in the future."

 

 

[DreamingTheBuild]

If you put more than an inch of your building over the boundary you are creating a ransom strip and the owner next door could extract tens of thousands of pounds from you. It looks a very nice development you are planning but you can only build to the line of boundary and this includes gutters overhangs etc.

 

What you could consider is making an offer for the piece of land you want and you could re-draw the boundary and register it at the Land Registry. It could be worth making a 5-10K offer given the area and scope of your works. This would have to be done by a firm of surveryors.

 

You have to remember if you build above ground over the boundary your neighbour can legally remove it, which could be a very painful experience on an extension.

 

 

[Hecateh]

Probably not relevant but may be useful to keep in mind. 

I spoke with some neighbours about my possible development way before even I had any real intentions.  These particular neighbours, in their 80's were encouraging and had no objections at all.  I spoke to them again, when I was having plans drawn up but before going for planning, again very encouraging.  After they got the obligatory letter from the planning department. They suddenly , on the advice of their son (future inheritor) didn't want the development and put in an objection to the council.. It didn't carry any weight and they have been fine with me since but. ...  It is just worth bearing in mind that elderly neighbours have younger children, and whilst it is right that they protect their parents interest - they also have an eye for their own inheritance.  

 

[newhome]

2 minutes ago, Hecateh said:

It is just worth bearing in mind that elderly neighbours have younger children, and whilst it is right that they protect their parents interest - they also have an eye for their own inheritance.  

 

 

Plus what people say they are going to do isn't necessarily what they actually do! I think in general most people don't like development near their property unless it's a massive improvement on what's there already (and even that's a subjective view). People get used to how things are and are generally resistant to change especially if they see the changes affecting their light, views, property value, creating more traffic or whatever. 

[oldskoolflash]

Thanks again all. On the back of this thread (to save starting another) I am looking for a supplier for the glazing (attached). The dream ticket would be to source some 1.7m x 2m off-the-shelf panels. Can anyone recommend someone?

 

Thanks

[PeterW]

That is a very big panel and you will need to go up to at least 6.4mm laminate on one or both panes to get the strength.

 

For a pure DG unit at that size with 6.4/16/6 with toughened Planitherm internal glass you're about £550 per unit - not including the frame, or how you secure them. I would also be worried that overheating would be a big issue as you have no way of opening or shading a very large glass space.

[oldskoolflash]

1 hour ago, PeterW said:

That is a very big panel and you will need to go up to at least 6.4mm laminate on one or both panes to get the strength.

 

For a pure DG unit at that size with 6.4/16/6 with toughened Planitherm internal glass you're about £550 per unit - not including the frame, or how you secure them. I would also be worried that overheating would be a big issue as you have no way of opening or shading a very large glass space.

 

Thanks Peter - good point regarding shading/ventilation. The garden faces North but still... I think at the very least I would look at having blinds fitted.

[PeterW]

Why not consider a flat roof with some sort of orangery type lantern to it ..? It would mean your window above the back corner could also still be used as a means of escape as you would currently be stepping out into glass ..

 

would simplify the design and also allow you to gain light at a lower cost.  

[oldskoolflash]

14 hours ago, PeterW said:

Why not consider a flat roof with some sort of orangery type lantern to it ..? It would mean your window above the back corner could also still be used as a means of escape as you would currently be stepping out into glass ..

 

would simplify the design and also allow you to gain light at a lower cost.  

 

I know what you mean but would worry about ending up with a dark central area by pulling the glazing forwards - will give it some thought though...

 

Thanks again.