Pocster Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 (edited) Hey Googling it but can’t find it ! want a device that cuts off water flow after say 10 mins , then resets after a period of time . Trying to control how long people shower for in a rental property where I pay the bills !! cheers Edited April 3, 2018 by Nickfromwales Title changed to better suit content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizzie Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Mmmm don’t think I would be impressed at a shower cutting off on a timer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted March 30, 2018 Author Share Posted March 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, lizzie said: Mmmm don’t think I would be impressed at a shower cutting off on a timer! 5 people a hot water tank , only finite water . All shower simultaneously ( worse case senario ) could be you have no water !! No other realistic solution . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted March 30, 2018 Author Share Posted March 30, 2018 Tenants things you can’t assume based on experience They will turn a tap off They will not put metal objects in a microwave They will not leave the gas hob on They will not prop open fire doors They will put the rubbish out They will turn the heating off They will turn lights off They will ..... endless list ! And so ! They will not drain all the hot water ????? Can you guess the answer ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultramods Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Why do you pay the utility bills? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted March 30, 2018 Author Share Posted March 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, ultramods said: Why do you pay the utility bills? Hmo all bills included trying to apportion utility bills amongst many is impossible . I use to do student let’s and it was a nightmare . Trying to do an up market hmo ; they like bills inclusive . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizzie Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, pocster said: Trying to do an up market hmo ; they like bills inclusive . Upmarket and lack of hot water the two dont seem to go together......can you put in a bigger tank or change to electric showers so no lack of hot water. HMO always a pain whichever way you tackle it. I had a residential letting agency for more than 20 years I dont think there is one thing in the universe I have not come across with tenants in that time. Refused to touch HMO and student stuff in later years just did corporates much better class of tenant damage? Edited March 30, 2018 by lizzie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted March 30, 2018 Author Share Posted March 30, 2018 (edited) I actually looked into this in 2014 on the old forum ? Just getting round to it now ! @Nickfromwales will save me ! low water wc’s push taps ( so can’t be left on ) pir in ensuite for light ? That allowed ?? main bathroom has electric shower water pressure is poor - so new pipe and water meter ? ? just need to supply 5 showers simultaneously! Edited March 30, 2018 by pocster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted March 30, 2018 Author Share Posted March 30, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, lizzie said: Upmarket and lack of hot water the two dont seem to go together HMO always a pain whichever way you tackle it. I had a residential letting agency for more than 20 years I dont think there is one thing in the universe I have not come across with tenants in that time. Refused to touch HMO and student stuff in later years just did corporates much better class of tenant damage? Cyclinder with timer is the solution I believe . HMOs are hard work . if the potential tenant knows that their ensuite shower lasts 10 mins , then takes say 60 mins to recover - they can decide if that’s appropriate before they move in . Better your own ensuite with a 10 min shower than share ‘infinite’ shower with 5 others ( 1 at a time of course ) Edited March 30, 2018 by pocster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted March 30, 2018 Author Share Posted March 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, lizzie said: Upmarket and lack of hot water the two dont seem to go together HMO always a pain whichever way you tackle it. I had a residential letting agency for more than 20 years I dont think there is one thing in the universe I have not come across with tenants in that time. Refused to touch HMO and student stuff in later years just did corporates much better class of tenant damage? Been doing hmo’s For years you had excrement smeared on the walls ? knife attacks ? 100 bottles of piss in a room ? fights ? ? That’s why I’m going up market ! They do exist - and yes hopefully better quality of tenants !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 20 hours ago, pocster said: I actually looked into this in 2014 on the old forum ? Just getting round to it now ! @Nickfromwales will save me ! I'm working on it. What electric supply do you have ? 21 hours ago, pocster said: 5 people a hot water tank , only finite water . All shower simultaneously ( worse case senario ) could be you have no water !! No other realistic solution . 5 showers simultaneously is a big ask. Tank fed elecric showers were the weapon of choice the last time I came up against such a request but with cooking on electric too they had to get another phase brought in from the electric board. Letting them fight over 5 standard electric showers would be the norm but to design a system with 5 showers will need the electrics notifying and signing off. Even with diversity you won't get all that one one phase. This is going to cost a good few £££ so best work out if you want to get on this rollercoaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted March 31, 2018 Author Share Posted March 31, 2018 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: I'm working on it. What electric supply do you have ? 5 showers simultaneously is a big ask. Tank fed elecric showers were the weapon of choice the last time I came up against such a request but with cooking on electric too they had to get another phase brought in from the electric board. Letting them fight over 5 standard electric showers would be the norm but to design a system with 5 showers will need the electrics notifying and signing off. Even with diversity you won't get all that one one phase. This is going to cost a good few £££ so best work out if you want to get on this rollercoaster. Thanks nick ! i think the best approach has to be a tank Megaflo type thing . i did look into going 3 phase etc but it is ££££££. so ! Let’s say 5 showers running simultaneously for 10 mins .... whats a typical shower use for 10 mins , 70ltrs? so at least a 300ltr tank. I assume they can be individually set everyone gets the same pressure regardless of how many were in use . how does all thing effect hot and cold taps water ??? cheers Edited March 31, 2018 by pocster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 8 minutes ago, pocster said: whats a typical shower use for 10 mins , 70ltrs? I measured the shower at our old house, an ordinary mains fed one with hot water from a combi boiler, It hasn't got a massive flow rate, but was a bit over 10 litres per minute, so 100 litres for a 10 minute shower. A big rainfall type shower could easily be double that, I think. Not all that flow will be hot water, depending on the incoming hot and cold water temperature to the mixer, but I used to run our hot water at 50 deg C from the combi, the shower would run at around 38 deg C and the incoming cold water was between 6 and 8 deg C, so perhaps 70 to 80% of the total flow rate would have been hot water at a guess. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted March 31, 2018 Author Share Posted March 31, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, JSHarris said: I measured the shower at our old house, an ordinary mains fed one with hot water from a combi boiler, It hasn't got a massive flow rate, but was a bit over 10 litres per minute, so 100 litres for a 10 minute shower. A big rainfall type shower could easily be double that, I think. Not all that flow will be hot water, depending on the incoming hot and cold water temperature to the mixer, but I used to run our hot water at 50 deg C from the combi, the shower would run at around 38 deg C and the incoming cold water was between 6 and 8 deg C, so perhaps 70 to 80% of the total flow rate would have been hot water at a guess. I could run 4 off a tank and 1 electric - presumably just off a cold header tank thereby reducing the strain on the Megaflo . I also prefer the main bathroom to have electric shower so if Megaflo fails then at least 1 shower is working .main bathroom being accessible to everyone. Edited March 31, 2018 by pocster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted March 31, 2018 Author Share Posted March 31, 2018 I guess the next question should be regarding the actual shower . You can get aerators etc that use less water but supposedly give a decent shower . Anyone got any experience of these and there consumption??? This is a good approach because the potential tenant can actually try the shower to decide if it’s sufficient before signing a contract ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted March 31, 2018 Author Share Posted March 31, 2018 After all How do small b & b’s manage ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 14 minutes ago, pocster said: After all How do small b & b’s manage ??? By luck, that everyone isn't going to shower at exactly the same time. Plus, they don't do a new install from scratch, instead just adding showers willy-nilly hoping to get away with it. Ive stayed at plenty where the electric has tripped when I turned the shower on, so it's down to luck afaic. Your designing a system to suit, from scratch, so, if it's elecric based, your only option unless you change the UVC to a 4-500L ( >500 is commercial too so whole new can of worms there ) is to get the electricity supply upgraded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted March 31, 2018 Author Share Posted March 31, 2018 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: By luck, that everyone isn't going to shower at exactly the same time. Plus, they don't do a new install from scratch, instead just adding showers willy-nilly hoping to get away with it. Ive stayed at plenty where the electric has tripped when I turned the shower on, so it's down to luck afaic. Your designing a system to suit, from scratch, so, if it's elecric based, your only option unless you change the UVC to a 4-500L ( >500 is commercial too so whole new can of worms there ) is to get the electricity supply upgraded. Edited March 31, 2018 by pocster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted March 31, 2018 Author Share Posted March 31, 2018 37 minutes ago, pocster said: Let’s say we go for a 400ltr Megaflo type thing . Is this a solution ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 45 minutes ago, pocster said: Let’s say we go for a 400ltr Megaflo type thing . Is this a solution ?? Not really because when the 2nd or 3rd shower is used the low ( available ) incoming cold water pressure will render them useless, either elecric or thermostatic mixer, both are cold mains dependant. No easy way out here I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted March 31, 2018 Author Share Posted March 31, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said: Not really because when the 2nd or 3rd shower is used the low ( available ) incoming cold water pressure will render them useless, either elecric or thermostatic mixer, both are cold mains dependant. No easy way out here I'm afraid. Ok what about 2 Megaflo ? Each feeding just 2 showers ?? come on nick ! No such thing as no solution ? Edited March 31, 2018 by pocster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Re shower flow. I just tried my newly plumbed in shower. It fills a 5L bucket in about 10 seconds, so something in the order of 30 litres per minute. I might need to restrict the flow on that!!! Granted it's at full mains pressure now, so when the HW tank is fitted with it's PRV that should go down a bit. Wish I had not bothered now with full bore isolating valves. We had 2 electric showers in the last house. I saw over 90A on the clamp meter with both running and other stuff on in the house. You really do NOT want more than 2 on a standard 100A single phase supply. If you want 5, then you must have 3 phase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted March 31, 2018 Author Share Posted March 31, 2018 16 minutes ago, ProDave said: Re shower flow. I just tried my newly plumbed in shower. It fills a 5L bucket in about 10 seconds, so something in the order of 30 litres per minute. I might need to restrict the flow on that!!! Granted it's at full mains pressure now, so when the HW tank is fitted with it's PRV that should go down a bit. Wish I had not bothered now with full bore isolating valves. We had 2 electric showers in the last house. I saw over 90A on the clamp meter with both running and other stuff on in the house. You really do NOT want more than 2 on a standard 100A single phase supply. If you want 5, then you must have 3 phase. Sure thing but even if I went 3 phase I’d still need a mega cold water tanks and pumps for each shower . i asked an electrician about 3 phase ; he said “ forget it “ ...... megaflo per shower !!!??!!? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 2 hours ago, pocster said: Ok what about 2 Megaflo ? Each feeding just 2 showers ?? come on nick ! No such thing as no solution ? They'd both need a cold main each Every pressurised water heater is cold mains dependant. No cold flow in = no hot flow out. Simples. You need to throw money at this, and there are a few ways to spend it. First:- How many showers are there now? When do they get used ? You charge for energy in a HMO monthly rental fee anyway, so how much excess consumption are you looking to prevent? Shortesr route :- You can put a 4-500L UVC in and fit a 500L cold mains accumulator to reinforce the hot and cold system and run cheap mixer showers. Job done. No option for timers etc so tough titties for going cheap. Timed route :- Get 3-phase in from the street to the meter location. Min £1800-£2k with you digging the hoolio. Fit £400 pumped electric showers ( 5 x £400 = £2k ) which need gravity cold water tanks and plumbing to each shower to drink from ( £1k ). Subsequent additional internal wiring to get fuseboards done and get juice to each isolator & shower location ( £2k -£2.5k most prob ). Does have integral run timers for 10 / 15 / 20 min duration before shutdown. Cost of energy youll save vs payback = waste of time IMO. What is there now? Is this a new system from scratch ? INPUT !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted March 31, 2018 Author Share Posted March 31, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: They'd both need a cold main each Every pressurised water heater is cold mains dependant. No cold flow in = no hot flow out. Simples. You need to throw money at this, and there are a few ways to spend it. First:- How many showers are there now? When do they get used ? You charge for energy in a HMO monthly rental fee anyway, so how much excess consumption are you looking to prevent? Shortesr route :- You can put a 4-500L UVC in and fit a 500L cold mains accumulator to reinforce the hot and cold system and run cheap mixer showers. Job done. No option for timers etc so tough titties for going cheap. Timed route :- Get 3-phase in from the street to the meter location. Min £1800-£2k with you digging the hoolio. Fit £400 pumped electric showers ( 5 x £400 = £2k ) which need gravity cold water tanks and plumbing to each shower to drink from ( £1k ). Subsequent additional internal wiring to get fuseboards done and get juice to each isolator & shower location ( £2k -£2.5k most prob ). Does have integral run timers for 10 / 15 / 20 min duration before shutdown. Cost of energy youll save vs payback = waste of time IMO. What is there now? Is this a new system from scratch ? INPUT !!!! I hear you nick ? we are looking at a from scratch system . currently 1 electric shower - that’s it ? ; hence the need to upgrade . so a 500uvc with a 500ltr cold supplying it ?. So I have 1000ltr too hand ? so when any taps run hot or cold will that effect shower flow ? can the taps come off just the Combi boiler ?? ( oh yeah ! There’s a Combi there ? ) agree timed route / 3 phase is s dead route . Simplest is best ! Edited March 31, 2018 by pocster 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now