Brink MVHR Flair 300 enthalpy vs. ComfoAir Q350 MVHR enthalpy

[Alan Ambrose]

Apologies for another brand comparison re-hash:

 

The Brink is about £3.9K vs. £2.3K for the Zehnder i.e. about 70% premium.

 

This is for a requirement of 160 normal/210 boost m^3 /h and so the Brink is about 1.9X oversize and the Zehnder 2.2X.

 

Am I missing something?

[Alan Ambrose]

And a bonus question - assuming a bit of wired switch / app control - what connectivity options have you chosen for each of these.

 

I see this for the Zehnder:

 

 

and this for the Ubbink:

 

[Alan Ambrose]

For anyone following along at home:

 

The difference between the Brink Flair 400 and the Brink Flair 400 Plus is the inclusion of an upgraded Plus PCB board (i.e. it includes the UWA2-E board). This enables "the Brink Home online and app control via (W)LAN internet connectivity and also extra analog inputs, digital inputs, and terminal connections for advanced accessories like post-heaters or complex multi-zone sensor setups." The base model includes "standard connectivity like eBus, Modbus for building management, RJ12, and USB port for an RF dongle. Also, basic local control via integrated display or 4-way switch."

 

Price difference is about £300 - in the UK I think by buying the 'E' board separately.

[Alan Ambrose]

The Zehnder box seems to require the 'ComfoConnect PRO' add-on at about £250 for LAN / wireless / modbus.

[Nickfromwales]

7 hours ago, Alan Ambrose said:

The Zehnder box seems to require the 'ComfoConnect PRO' add-on at about £250 for LAN / wireless / modbus.

Ping me a PM when you’re ready to buy   
 

We’ve been here, Brink is often the winner on price / performance and more; CVC Systems in Oxford have not once let me or my clients down, ever. Passivhaus certification where I’ve needed it, and beyond. 

 

Fitted a Zehnder recently, nothing to report wrt boosted quality etc tbh.

 

Black PVC tape to mask the unit during handling, so it didn’t get scratched. 

 

 

I think the tightest plant space I have ever managed to squeeze one into lol. 
 

I suggested a Brink here, physically smaller unit which would have done a plenty-good-enough job, but the client went supersized for zero reward, but hey 🤷‍♂️, if you’ve got the money and know better……..

 

 

[Gus Potter]

19 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

I think the tightest plant space I have ever managed to squeeze one into lol.

How do you get into service that? We see it as now but once all the roof insulation goes in what then? 

[Nickfromwales]

3 minutes ago, Gus Potter said:

How do you get into service that? We see it as now but once all the roof insulation goes in what then? 

It was all accessible. Tight as feck, but I made it work. 
 

Sat the unit on 2x neoprene clad 3x2” feet, so it could be lowered down and replaced if necessary, but in reality everything is changeable from the front panel.

 

All good, I made it to be so   
 

Got zero thanks, but 🤷‍♂️, we move lol   

[Gus Potter]

3 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Got zero thanks,

It's gutting at times when you do a good job, no thanks, such is life. 

[Nickfromwales]

Hhhhh

Just now, Gus Potter said:

It's gutting at times when you do a good job, no thanks, such is life. 

Yup. 

[Post and beam]

8 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

Ping me a PM when you’re ready to buy   

 

Listen to @Nickfromwales. Believe me, you will save money. My Brink 400  was a little less than £2k on his advice.

Which reminds me, and on the subject of thanks @NickfromwalesIf i forgot previously a huge thankyou for the tip.

[Alan Ambrose]

OK a bit more info:

 

+ the Zehnder unit has the benefit of not being 'handed' (as it's switchable) but the drawback is that it's quite a lot physically taller - 850mm vs. 650mm.

 

+ the Brink unit seems to be consistently £600 more expensive than the Zehnder.

 

+ the Brink Vigor / Flair etc brand confusion doesn't inspire confidence. Which organisation will be supporting? Neither was my experience of their duct system which seem half-baked ... just like someone on their design team had never ever tried to install it.

 

+ both Brink & Zehnder seem to need an extra bit of electronics for web control. Although, in the end the built-in RS485 / Modbus might be the best control solution. According to Google AI (which I have not verified) the Brink units need an actual internet connection for the app to work, the Zehnder units don't.

 

 

While the bigger physical size is a pain, I'm leaning towards the Zehnder unit.

[Alan Ambrose]

OK for anyone 'following along at home' I decided on the Brink unit. I was leaning towards Zehnder but the physical size was an important factor considering the slopey attic it needs to fit into. I figured I needed 30cm above the unit to cope with the ducting. Not yet sure what I'll do re controls - the branded controls are stupidly expensive imo. I'll probably run CAT6 to the places where we want controls and/or sensors and assume I'll figure out the wiring later.

[JohnMo]

6 minutes ago, Alan Ambrose said:

yet sure what I'll do re controls

Step back what controls do you REALLY need. From experience almost nothing. A manual boost over ride in kitchen and outside bathrooms, although the only we ever use is the kitchen, once in a blue moon. Your unit should have in built humidity sensors anyway. CO2 don't waste your money, humidity does the job. Timers for different modes don't waste you time or money. Reporting and recording data, why bother, it dies what it does. Switch on forget (except filter cleans or changes).

 

Out Titon HRV uses volt free boost switches, so simple and cheap 

Edited 6 hours ago by JohnMo

[LnP]

37 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

Step back what controls do you REALLY need. From experience almost nothing. A manual boost over ride in kitchen and outside bathrooms, although the only we ever use is the kitchen, once in a blue moon. Your unit should have in built humidity sensors anyway. CO2 don't waste your money, humidity does the job. Timers for different modes don't waste you time or money. Reporting and recording data, why bother, it dies what it does. Switch on forget (except filter cleans or changes).

 

Out Titon HRV uses volt free boost switches, so simple and cheap 

I’m close to placing an order and agree with all of this. I’m planning fit and forget. Keep it simple. Additionally, from my research:

• The Brink doesn’t have a humidity sensor built in as standard. You do need one and need to specify one to be fitted in the return duct just in front of the unit. The Zehnder has humidity control as standard.
• I’m not sure I’ve fully got my head around this, but I think the Zehnder has a more advanced algorithm if you have active cooling (via your heat pump or multi splits). It’s something to do with how it looks at outside and inside temperatures and controls the bypass.

[Alan Ambrose]

Ah interesting, I hadn't clocked the bit about the humidity sensor - a bit dumb that it wouldn't have. BTW cheapest places I could find were TradeSparky for the Zehnder and CVC for the Brink.

 

This thing?

 

https://www.ventilationland.co.uk/en_GB/p/brink-excellent-rv-humidity-sensor/5791/

 

Seems expensive.

 

I was planning boost in the bathrooms and kitchen and maybe a co2 sensor in our bedroom as I think my other half is very sensitive to this - she wants the bedroom window open all year round - even in minus degrees.  

Edited 4 hours ago by Alan Ambrose

[LnP]

CVC included the humidity sensor in my quote for the Brink, recognising that you do need one. It’s not integral with the unit though, not that that matters.

[JohnMo]

I use one of these in one of my MVHR units

https://ebay.io/m/evTvz0. Site in a simple junction box and sensor goes in the air distribution box on the return side. My MVHR is all based on zero volt signals. Brink etc all seem to be based around an expensive ecosystem.

Edited 3 hours ago by JohnMo

[JohnMo]

2 hours ago, Alan Ambrose said:

was planning boost in the bathrooms and kitchen and maybe a co2 sensor in our bedroom as I think my other half is very sensitive to this

We have our bedroom window open until heating season, then it's closed. But being in Scotland we have to CO2 monitor in our bedroom, it records and gives peak and average readings. I used it tune flow rate to bedroom with bedroom door closed also. So we kept CO2 level at a low but sensible level. Once set there is no need to continually monitor and react.

[Post and beam]

3 hours ago, Alan Ambrose said:

CVC for the Brink

I refer the honourable gentleman to the answer i gave some moments (weeks)ago.

Listen to what @Nickfromwales said, There is a much cheaper option than CVC for it.