Renovating 200 year old property in Gloucestershire

[nobody]

We're first timers in our sixties, renovating a 200 year old Gloucestershire property as our last home.

It's very basic (no central heating, damp) with a stone centre, brick semi-added pre 1860 and s 20th C. extension at each end.

Removing the plaster and some ceiling my wife has revealed questionable [cough] building techniques which explain some of the cracks and a patched up Inglenook which we plan to restore.

Early days but we have a builder and architect for a garden room style extension. We have lots of ideas and plenty of time, but of course not enough money :-)

 

If you've done anything like this by all means tell us we're barmy, it just say hi.

 

Met a couple this morning and got chatting about this, and they recommended this forum highly. I'm learning so much useful stuff from others offline and online. For others I can recommend Mastodon (a non commercial social network - no ads or algorithm getting in the way). Posting questions there has been a great help.

[Nickfromwales]

Hi, and welcome

 

Are you in a conservation area, or area of outstanding natural beauty?

 

Listed?

 

We thrive on info here, so get the fingers tapping on the keyboard and then ideas and info can be forthcoming! 
 

🙂

[nobody]

Thanks Nick (big fan of Wales here).

 

Neither AONB or listed but we are in the Severn Estuary SAC. I think that's mainly concerned with new build but IANAL.

 

Please keep asking, I'm not sure what's helpful. My usual tendency is to provide too much info but feeling my way here so that's helpful.

 

I've returned to looking at MVAC with Solar + battery, so interested to hear good and bad experiences with those in old buildings. We have some 40cm walls (mostly internal), 12cm ceiling spaces, and only one loft space that could house the central unit, but I'm wondering if a small diameter high velocity air duct system is feasible, maybe supplemented with Solo internal units (eg Panasonic Solo RAC). I don't like split AC because it is so out of keeping with the character we want to keep (beams, old floors, doors, dodgy staircases and stone walls).

 

Current plan is:

- garden room extension to living room

- replaster throughout (Diathonite)

- replace ceilings

- rewiring + home automation

- damp course

- dig out and insulate concrete floors 

- restore Inglenook, solid fuel stove 

- double glazing

- hot water taps + electric showers (no tank or hot water plumbing) 

- heating tbd. No mains gas so it's heat pump or oil and we hope former is feasible.

 

There are other things of course but that's the core. Any suggestions to look at that help us keep things old and quirky appreciated. We have old wooden internal doors covered with lead paint we wish to keep for example. 

 

I'm technical (physics and computer) but have no experience of builds although my dad was in the trade (stories there!). My wife is the aestheticist, and doing the heavy lifting while I do research and spreadsheets, which is weird [laughing]. We need more emojis here btw.

 

Edited 16 hours ago by nobody
Typo

[Russell griffiths]

Morning I’m in Cirencester 

first question. Why electric showers. 
would be my last choice, unvented cylinder and nice thermostatic mixer shower will provide good shower pressure and loads of hot water. 

[saveasteading]

2 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

Why electric showers. 

A good one is an expensive luxury, but divide by number of showers and £800 becomes pennies per use. We have an aqualisa. Press a button outside and it starts. When the light stops flashing you walk straight into it.

I realise how good it is whenever I have to use a lesser one.

[saveasteading]

9 hours ago, nobody said:

I'm not sure what's helpful

Welcome.

Neither are we until we know more. Eventually we will get there.

What size? Number of rooms?

In approx terms does it feel ample in size?

 

The stone centre: is that an original building that has been encased in new?

There may be construction and damp challenges.

[nobody]

4 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

Why electric showers

If also using electric hot water taps, it eliminates the need for a tank, hot water plumbing and any questions about heat pumps wrt hot water. Also I expect more reliability and lower maintenance than alternatives. Unless you use a lot of hot water (we won't) I think it's a good option for us. 

 

2 hours ago, saveasteading said:

There may be construction and damp challenges.

Yes, and we await the visit from a structural engineer. There's lots of damp, some decay but I'm optimistic based on the reaction of two builders and the original survey. My wife has removed a lot of the plaster and we can see cracks and past repairs which hasn't yet alarmed our builder or architect, but I expect we'll have strengthening and support work to do in more than one area. I couldn't believe what was holding up the gable end two story stone wall above a two meter gap made to create a snug with window to the garden: a single plank of thickness one to two inches. We sleep better with an Accro prop in there now! (Not that we sleep in the building).

 

We plan to dig out, insulate and level the mismatched, damp concrete floors throughout.

 

More info:

Yes, a two story stone 200+ yr old one up one down with an old loft conversion. On the front has been added another smaller bungalow with loft conversion which was a separate semi detached dwelling (1800's we think, solid brick walls). On the side of that, and the opposite side of the stone building are 1980's single story extensions (block work, no cavity we think). Everything is rendered outside and a 50yr (?) old concrete tile roof which is structurally sound but leaks where the valleys meet our neighbour's roof each side of the old buildings. 

 

I know photos would help but am reluctant to post such. 

 

Ground floor: main entrance (from N facing open garden on a bend) to Kitchen/Shower room (1980's ext), door Living Room 1 (Inglenook), door Living Room 2 (second chimney), wide sliding door to Study (1980's ext) with exit to garden.

 

We want some more space downstairs, so will extend the gable end of the stone building. The kitchen/shower room will be made into one larger kitchen with patio doors to a small courtyard - the only wall that gets sun most of the day.

 

The living room is dark and has large Inglenook (bricked up for support due to broken beam). Too large for the room, so we will restore, and extend into the N facing garden: awaiting designs for an oak framed Garden Room with lots of glass, pitched roof matching the gable end from which it will extend. The "study" will have doors to the adjacent Living Room 2, and the Garden Room, making it a GF bath+shower room for when we can't get upstairs.

 

First floor: three rooms, the central one to be a smaller bath+shower room/ensuite to one of the upstairs bedrooms. 

 

Above this is a loft room. At this level the stone of the Gable End becomes solid brick, with a window with tremendous view, so we plan a Juliet balcony here. (Noone is overlooked, so the architect thinks the only likely planning issues will be with the extension because this is visible from the road - our whole garden is exposed though as we're on a bend and don't have any space behind on our quadrant shaped plot. We plan a high Yew hedge and internal fences/trellis to make it private.)

 

My main concerns are about combining meeting our needs now and as we grow old, with maintaining it's quirky character (three staircases, old floorboards and wooden doors etc) while ensuring it will be a home long after we're gone. Affordably obviously! 

 

We're considering leaving some of the stone walls in Living Room 1 exposed: around the Inglenook is a party wall, and between living room and extension - so not external walls. We're also considering removing outside render from the stone gable end, perhaps rendering only over the brick of the loft room wall. Decisions for later. 

 

Sucking of teeth welcome if accompanied by explanations .

 

 We're completely new to this but have the luxury of not being under time pressure and able to live nearby for some time.

 

Thanks if you read all this!

Edited 5 hours ago by nobody

[saveasteading]

So the original has been rxtended, not enclosed?

Is the stonework dressed or rubble? 

 

Mortared in place, pointed?

It might help dampness to leave some exposed.

 

You need to find how deep the footings are. The steading was only about 300 below ground in total.

You can't excavate much below that.

 

The inglenook may be supporting the building. This is SE work. Esp at a party wall as there may be a shared chimney AND you don't know what the neighbours have done.

It is scarily common for people to remove a chimney at GF  leaving the chimney hanging.

 

Understood re photos but some closeups perhaps?

 

Another important issue is door heights. If you raise the floor can you get through without ducking?

 

 

[nobody]

Thanks for reading and following up. Your questions and things to look out for are very helpful.

 

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

So the original has been rxtended, not enclosed?

I'd say yes but am not sure I understand what "enclosed" means here. 

 

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

Is the stonework dressed or rubble? 

 

Mortared in place, pointed?

 

I believe it is dressed mudstone, and mortared. As for the quality of this [mmm], pic:

 

That's the chimney breast in the loft room. The wall opposite is solid brick while the walls below that brick are also stone, with some small patches of brick repairs. 

 

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

Another important issue is door heights. If you raise the floor can you get through without ducking?

The plan will be to lower the higher floor of the stone building to match those either side increasing the door height, but we'll see how that goes. [nervous laugh]

 

I note the earlier point about depth which was already on my mind. Our builder has done extension and conversion work of old and new properties nearby (the latter a c. 2,000 semi next door) so knows the ground well. He had to dig much deeper than planned there, for a garage conversion and rear extension to a modern building. So it's something I'll be following closely but trust him to approach sensibly. 

 

From what I can see and know, our neighbour has separate chimney and is a later build (solid brick construction). I'm also sure it hasn't been modernised but will note your concerns and raise these possibilities (thanks, they are really helpful things to check).

 

Assuming SE = Structural Engineering, yes. Or builder plans a structural survey soon. 

 

So far we've been lucky with no sign of that running out... yet! Thanks again for your thoughts. I really appreciate them. 

Edited 2 hours ago by nobody

[JohnMo]

If your digging the floors out, are you doing UFH? Would be a simple and pretty cheap way to add heating downstairs.  If so, the more insulation the better.

 

Not a fan of your hot water solution. Electric showers are just rubbish after having a unvented cylinder. Make room for a small/medium cylinder heating via immersion. Add a decent shower mixer. Your going to be running cold pipes anyway an additional pipe is easy while your at it any way.

[saveasteading]

very interesting chimney . the rustic construction would be great to retain for interest but will need a lot of attention. Doable though.

are these stone flag floors? on second looks... perhaps old timber planks and some infill modern stuff?

Yes SE as you say... pardon me in advance because this will happen al the time. SE EPS PIR  x 100.

 

Foundations. Can you ask why the modern building had deep founds? on perfect ground you would be 900mm deep. deeper means that the ground is soft or there are trees nearby.

BUT 200 years ago they would scrape out as little as possible, topsoil really, and build stone straight onto that.  That construction rises and falls annually, while the new bit stays put.

Hence I suggest checking how much asap (sorry abbreviations again).

 

My prejudice perhaps but importantly...  however good an SE , not all have expertise in old stone. Ask. They will very likely be straight forward and decline if they think someone else will know better..

Unlike Architects who mostly take on anything and the problems arise later. Ditto builder.  ("subject to Engineer's inspection" becomes your risk later. whereas the issues should be addressed early and influence the whole design.