Balcony Solar Is Coming!

[SteamyTea]

I am currently reading Howard Mark's Mr. Nice.

Seems you can buy anything, anywhere.

[Dillsue]

22 hours ago, Mattg4321 said:

yet old Joe Bloggs can nip to Wickes and he’s fine to plug it into a system that isn’t safe to start with and has now been made even worse by him pushing power through devices in the wrong direction. 

Don't forget that earth leakage detection and tripping is a secondary safety feature and if Joe bloggs is plugging into system that isn't safe it's not because he doesn't have bi directional earth leakage detection.

[Ferdinand]

Serious question on this one:

As a landlord, what do I need to worry about with electrical systems in rented dwellings wrt balcony solar?

My practice has been to rewire or professionally review the wiring, usually with a new consumer unit.

These days 5-yearly electrical inspections are required, with potentially swingeing fines (tens of thousands) just from a Council in England, just as a civil penalty before it gets to Court.

Are there extra inspections or insurance I need to consider, in case a T gets a balcony solar and just sticks it into one of my systems which has something that is not covered by the standard regimen? This is the sort of thing a tenant would just do. A few would check with the LL; most would not.

If they are a T who has had their own house previously they would be aware, but many Ts do not know how to run a house. Around here it is mainly unfurnished, so most have at least some idea of looking after a house.

What are the failure modes - will I have an RCBO going pop or a house burnt down?

Comments welcome.

[Mattg4321]

1 hour ago, Dillsue said:

Don't forget that earth leakage detection and tripping is a secondary safety feature and if Joe bloggs is plugging into system that isn't safe it's not because he doesn't have bi directional earth leakage detection.

You’re possibly correct with the second part of that. I wouldn’t be too worried at all if all else was correct other than having uni directional rather than a bi directional device fitted. 
 

RCD protection is sometimes “additional protection” and sometimes “fault protection”. Most usually in the case of fault protection in TT systems where they are often the only method of protection as fault currents are too low for fuses/MCB’s to operate in a line to earth fault scenario. 

[Mattg4321]

1 hour ago, Ferdinand said:

Serious question on this one:

As a landlord, what do I need to worry about with electrical systems in rented dwellings wrt balcony solar?

My practice has been to rewire or professionally review the wiring, usually with a new consumer unit.

These days 5-yearly electrical inspections are required, with potentially swingeing fines (tens of thousands) just from a Council in England, just as a civil penalty before it gets to Court.

Are there extra inspections or insurance I need to consider, in case a T gets a balcony solar and just sticks it into one of my systems which has something that is not covered by the standard regimen? This is the sort of thing a tenant would just do. A few would check with the LL; most would not.

If they are a T who has had their own house previously they would be aware, but many Ts do not know how to run a house. Around here it is mainly unfurnished, so most have at least some idea of looking after a house.

What are the failure modes - will I have an RCBO going pop or a house burnt down?

Comments welcome.

As they are effectively portable appliances, then I can’t see how you can possibly be held liable for any injury that occurs due to equipment that you are not aware of and has been installed by the tenant. Same as with any faulty appliance owned by the tenant. You could insist they test all their appliances I suppose. 
 

The other risk would be a fire risk and what effect this would have on your buildings insurance - would they cover a fire caused by faulty balcony solar?
 

The rules brought in a few years ago mandating electrical inspections have actually worked quite well and the average rental is probably in slightly better condition than the average owner occupied house these days - from an electrical point of view. 
 

The biggest risk other than pre existing electrical installation faults is probably the imbecile that installs it so it takes off and kills someone at the first sign of windy conditions or catches fire where they’ve shut the lead in the window/door etc. I’m sure we’ll also see people cutting the plugs off and badly reinstalling them and people plugging in multiple systems into the same circuit. 
 

On that last point, if you have say 3x (or more) 800w systems on a standard 20 amp radial circuit that might already be running at capacity as it’s feeding a tumble dryer and hot tub outside, then you’re moving into fire risk territory. 
 

You have a circuit that is designed for max 20 amps that could now be taking more like 30 amps. 

[Ferdinand]

Thanks @Mattg4321.

The angle I am coming from is risk management - a huge part of effective landlording is understanding the locus of potential tenant behaviours and lifestyle, and having a robust property that manages the risky ones out before they start.

The reason is that once it gets into the consequences the implications become horrific because a Council will go in feet first and HARD, and a single problem can destroy an entire business - or in my case future pension provision. The blame will *always* be on the LL not the T.

Equally something like a gas problem born from simple neglect can have consequences up to and including death, and constant sweating of the detail is the only strategy. My risk management for that as soon as I can will be all electric houses.

And risks can only be managed in advance - which is why credit checks etc need to be obsessive.

Three examples of strategies I pursue routinely are to install enough sockets so that extension leads will *never* be needed - in the last 8x8ft kitchen I renovated there were about 11 double sockets plus appliance ones below the worktops. And provide constant trickle ventilation (poor man's MVHR - loft PIV fan and a trickle HR ventilator downstairs) to maintain a fresh atmosphere just in case eg washing is dried inside, and install shelves immediately above every radiator so washing physically cannot be added.

So I'm just thinking through balcony solar.

I suspect one I need to look at is the type of RCBOs.

Cheers

F

[SteamyTea]

1 hour ago, Ferdinand said:

The angle I am coming from is risk management

Can you specify that they must not use one.

As pointed out above, it is not just the wiring load, there is also the problems with the kit cluttering up the place and possibly falling.

It is not unusual to make minor changes to contracts.

[Ferdinand]

29 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Can you specify that they must not use one.

As pointed out above, it is not just the wiring load, there is also the problems with the kit cluttering up the place and possibly falling.

It is not unusual to make minor changes to contracts.

Yes - they could be excluded in the same way as "no washing on the balcony" in the contract.

But I can't see that sticking for ever, once they are in safe use.