metal framed cupboard and dropped ceiling

[Thorfun]

afternoon all. firstly I've put this in the general joinery section as we don't have a metal frame section on the forum I could see! I know metal framing isn't joinery but I couldn't think of a better place to put it.

 

anyway, winter is coming and I'm hanging up my golf clubs to do some more work on the basement. the room I'm working on has the under-the-stairs bit and I want to frame it out to make a cupboard. no big deal I think. but I am also needing to drop the ceiling by about 500mm so I can cover the soil pipe (the picture below tells the story). 

 

my concern is that the walls where I've coloured the lines orange won't have anything to fix to apart from a ceiling top-hat (in light blue). is that sufficient? also where do I attach the ceiling perimeter channel coloured green that will take the top hats to? I'm struggling to envision how it all works and if it will all be sturdy enough! we want to eventually hang a TV off the cupboard wall.

 

can anyone put my mind at ease and tell me it'll be fine? also any advice for doing this sort of "free-standing"-ish wall and ceiling? I

 

[JohnMo]

I would just do it in 3x2 or 4x2 wood, was forced to use some metal studs behind our stove, much prefer the wooden stud walls - nice sturdy.

[Thorfun]

1 minute ago, JohnMo said:

I would just do it in 3x2 or 4x2 wood, was forced to use some metal studs behind our stove, much prefer the wooden stud walls - nice sturdy.

but the wood still wouldn't have anything "solid" to fix to above for the walls? an I still need a perimeter channel for the ceiling to fix to something?

[Thorfun]

hmm....I guess I could cut a piece of wood with an angle and attach to the boarding under the stairs to give a 90deg angle for the perimeter channel to attach to? but sounds fraught with risk that the angle won't be accurate enough.

[crispy_wafer]

Without knowing the correct way yet…. I’d either fix my top u channel through plasterboard to the mf5 if there is a piece in the right place, or drop a piece of ply off-cut above the plasterboard to fix my top u channel too, it would mean putting the ply onto the plasterboard as the ceiling is going up, but where there’s a will there’s a way.

Edited Sunday at 16:09 by crispy_wafer
Typo

[Thorfun]

1 minute ago, crispy_wafer said:

Without knowing the correct way yet…. I’d either fix my top u channel through plasterboard to the mf5 if there is a piece in the right place, or drop a pice of ply off-cut above the plasterboard to fix my top u channel too, it would mean putting the ply onto the plasterboard as the ceiling is going up, but where there’s a will there’s a way.

sure. no issues fixing the top wall channel to the top hat and that was what I figured would happen for the wall. but where do I fix the MF6 perimeter channel to (coloured green in the photo)?

[Nickfromwales]

Those two walls will act as buttresses to themselves, so once boarded they would stand alone with ease. 
 

I would firstly fly the ceiling (cyan lines) into the z shaped wall, purple, so you have more structure meeting the staircase and side wall to the door. 
 

[Nickfromwales]

Everyone, “news flash!!”.

 

It’s a tiny cupboard.   

[Thorfun]

2 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Those two walls will act as buttresses to themselves, so once boarded they would stand alone with ease. 
 

I would firstly fly the ceiling (cyan lines) into the z shaped wall, purple, so you have more structure meeting the staircase and side wall to the door. 
 

but the z-shaped purple line under the stairs' perimeter channel will be pointing at an angle down unless I can cut a piece of wood at the right angle to make the channel sit at 90deg?

[Thorfun]

2 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Everyone, “news flash!!”.

 

It’s a tiny cupboard.   

it's not the size, it's how you use it. at least that's what @Pocster says.

[Nickfromwales]

14 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

but the z-shaped purple line under the stairs' perimeter channel will be pointing at an angle down unless I can cut a piece of wood at the right angle to make the channel sit at 90deg?

You just cut small off cuts and snip the middle, to make little ‘angle-adjustable’ brackets, to hold this firm. 
 

Fit it horizontal / flat from the right hand wall to the wall that returns to the side of the stairs, then install 3 or 4 of your home made brackets to take any wiggle up. 
 

Quicker and easier than fecking about shaping wood.   

[Thorfun]

13 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

You just cut small off cuts and snip the middle, to make little ‘angle-adjustable’ brackets, to hold this firm. 
 

Fit it horizontal / flat from the right hand wall to the wall that returns to the side of the stairs, then install 3 or 4 of your home made brackets to take any wiggle up. 
 

Quicker and easier than fecking about shaping wood.   

Not sure I understand what you mean. 😢 

[Nickfromwales]

 

Get a bit of the wall / angle metal and cut about 100mm long. 
 

Cut out the red bit, bending along the red dotted line. 
 

Cut the green line, and bend that along the green dotted line by 90° to make an end return. 
 

Fix the bracket to the stairs sloping wall, then screw up through the flat section (that you don’t want to slope) into the tab created by the green fold.

 

3 of them, 2 of 200mm in from each side and one centred, will take out any twang.

 

Red dotted line should have been parallel with the green one.

 

Prob quicker if I fold 3 and post them to you lol. 

[Thorfun]

18 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

 

Get a bit of the wall / angle metal and cut about 100mm long. 
 

Cut out the red bit, bending along the red dotted line. 
 

Cut the green line, and bend that along the green dotted line by 90° to make an end return. 
 

Fix the bracket to the stairs sloping wall, then screw up through the flat section (that you don’t want to slope) into the tab created by the green fold.

 

3 of them, 2 of 200mm in from each side and one centred, will take out any twang.

 

Red dotted line should have been parallel with the green one.

 

Prob quicker if I fold 3 and post them to you lol. 

thanks. next saturday when I'm doing the job I'll see if I can figure it out! 

[Pocster]

Just do metal frame for stud and ceiling - like me 😊 . Easy as pee 

[Thorfun]

42 minutes ago, Pocster said:

Just do metal frame for stud and ceiling - like me 😊 . Easy as pee 

For that authentic office look

[Pocster]

5 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

For that authentic office look

For that authentic dungeon look!. In your basement it's probably the BEST solution for your ceiling. It allows lighting/speakers to be moved/rewired at will. Makes any cabling and/or pipework from the above floor easily accessible. It's light weight and easy to install. Cheaper than stud/board/skim . BETTER! - not because I did it - but because the pro's outweighs the negatives. Ultimately no-one looks at a ceiling - if you don't copy "the swindon' look i.e. stained tiles,  tile size 'office'  lights etc etc - it's just a white surface over your head.

Edited Sunday at 18:16 by Pocster

[Thorfun]

27 minutes ago, Pocster said:

it's just a white surface over your head.

Who are you trying to convince? Me or yourself! 🤣

[Pocster]

7 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

Who are you trying to convince? Me or yourself! 🤣

Not me mate. Even my SWMBO ( as you can imagine ) as sceptical before. Not only does it allow easy alterations etc at a later date - it actually looks really good. The problem is as I implied most of these ceilings look like shite - because the edging is shite, they've had leaks/cracks/stains and no one fixes them. They stick a big full tile (expletive deleted)ing horrible led square for a light. I'm actually surprised how 'soft' and unobtrusive it is. Let's be honest though; when you live with something it does 'fade' into the background a bit. I think if you saw my ceiling first hand you would not be overwhelmed with "swindon office" style. I *deliberately* have had people in whom would freely give their opinion - and I know they would say exactly what they think regardless of me - yet instead it's always "where is the tv?" or "I don't like those tiles " - clearly they are looking elsewhere. If you choose the correct ceiling tiles; install with care  - so NOT the one's in the gym or Jobcentre ceiling - then you can get away from that polystyrene 'cheap' look. Come and take a look!

Edited Sunday at 18:52 by Pocster

[Gus Potter]

Cut a piece of ply / OSB3  to you ceiling shape, fix that using a combination of pink grip and screws to the existing walls and underside of the stair. That is your stiff diaphragm that holds everything at the wall head in place. 

 

Build the walls, could be MF or timber. Sheet with ply/ OSB 3.. that give you mutiple fixing points for hooks, TV etc. 

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, Gus Potter said:

Cut a piece of ply / OSB3  to you ceiling shape, fix that using a combination of pink grip and screws to the existing walls and underside of the stair. That is your stiff diaphragm that holds everything at the wall head in place. 

 

Build the walls, could be MF or timber. Sheet with ply/ OSB 3.. that give you mutiple fixing points for hooks, TV etc. 

It’ll be the worlds smallest cinema room lol. 🤷‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[Thorfun]

1 hour ago, Pocster said:

Not me mate. Even my SWMBO ( as you can imagine ) as sceptical before. Not only does it allow easy alterations etc at a later date - it actually looks really good. The problem is as I implied most of these ceilings look like shite - because the edging is shite, they've had leaks/cracks/stains and no one fixes them. They stick a big full tile (expletive deleted)ing horrible led square for a light. I'm actually surprised how 'soft' and unobtrusive it is. Let's be honest though; when you live with something it does 'fade' into the background a bit. I think if you saw my ceiling first hand you would not be overwhelmed with "swindon office" style. I *deliberately* have had people in whom would freely give their opinion - and I know they would say exactly what they think regardless of me - yet instead it's always "where is the tv?" or "I don't like those tiles " - clearly they are looking elsewhere. If you choose the correct ceiling tiles; install with care  - so NOT the one's in the gym or Jobcentre ceiling - then you can get away from that polystyrene 'cheap' look. Come and take a look!

I do believe you, it’s just so much fun winding you up. 😂

 

[Thorfun]

1 hour ago, Gus Potter said:

Sheet with ply/ OSB 3.. that give you mutiple fixing points for hooks, TV etc. 

I question the need for this anymore with TVs getting lighter and fixings getting stronger do we really need to worry about fixing in to plasterboard anymore?

[Nickfromwales]

2 hours ago, Thorfun said:

I question the need for this anymore with TVs getting lighter and fixings getting stronger do we really need to worry about fixing in to plasterboard anymore?

If you have various "attachments" required in the dungeon basement, then possibly yes. 

[saveasteading]

Using timber. First build your cupboard. It will stand on its own without fixing 

to the slope. Then fixtothat o the slope any way you choose. Angles? Or just long screws into plugs.

Continue that top plate all round the wall. Fix ceiling battens. Add noggings or dwangs (by geographic location) to stiffen the other way and for ceiling board fixings.

Will the domestic sounds from the pipes be an issue?  Yes? Sound proof. 

No? Leave the ceiling off for the 'honesty of the space'.