readiescards Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 Subject to a prior post about whether my duct is safe for mains 240vAC SWA, are there any tips to run SWA and CAT5/6 cabling alongside each other for 20m? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 (edited) This isn't really on, as mentioned in the other post. The minimum separation is 300mm between power and data cables, but in practice you can get away with a bit less, say 200mm, without getting interference over short runs like this, although it's not recommended. For safety reasons as much as anything else you shouldn't put power and data in the same duct, even if there isn't an interference problem in practice. The only exception I know to this rule is for pure fibre optic data "cable" with no electrical conductors. I believe it's OK to run that alongside power cable OK. Edited January 6, 2018 by JSHarris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 If your main duct is big enough dia wise you could run a separate pvc flexible conduit within it alongside the armoured cable. You can get it down to about 12mm internal diameter. Shop around. I've some 20mm couplers I think somewhere if you had to buy shorter lengths and couple them. That puts them in "separate compartments". The On Site Guide says 50mm separation (internal & external cables) between Band 1 & 2. This separation distance need not be maintained if the cables are in separate conduits / a non conducting divider. In separate "ducts" even if close they're less likely to be "touching" along their length and suffer from "mutual effects". The gap between cables, along their length will vary too (which is good). Money no object you can get shielded Cat-6 but that has special plugs etc that need to be earthed. I know jack (pun intended) about networking beyond the very basics. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Onoff said: If your main duct is big enough dia wise you could run a separate pvc flexible conduit within it alongside the armoured cable. You can get it down to about 12mm internal diameter. Shop around. I've some 20mm couplers I think somewhere if you had to buy shorter lengths and couple them. That puts them in "separate compartments". The On Site Guide says 50mm separation (internal & external cables) between Band 1 & 2. This separation distance need not be maintained if the cables are in separate conduits / a non conducting divider. In separate "ducts" even if close they're less likely to be "touching" along their length and suffer from "mutual effects". The gap between cables, along their length will vary too (which is good). Money no object you can get shielded Cat-6 but that has special plugs etc that need to be earthed. I know jack (pun intended) about networking beyond the very basics. It's a damaged 50mm duct (see other post), so this may be tricky, even over 20m. I guess it depends on the run and how damaged the duct is where it's been repaired. One thought I had was to run a bit of armoured duct in there for the data cables, but looking around I couldn't find anything that seemed to fit the bill - standard galvanised steel armoured flexible duct, earthed at either end would probably corrode eventually, I think, as there's water in there now, apparently. I'm not sure how good it would be at screening, either, as it's not designed to be used like this AFAIK. Edited to add: Just had a look at the spec for Kopex FLB. It looks like it "might" do the job, as it has a non-conductive outer that is watertight. Run the data cables in this and the SWA down the duct and it "might" work OK. It's just barely compliant with the regs, though, as it's arguable as to whether the Kopex is, strictly speaking, non-conductive. I'd argue that the outer plastic sheath makes it so, so the only issue is making sure that the end terminations are well separated, as they aren't insulated. Kopex FLB isn't cheap though. I haven't bought any of the stuff for ages, but do remember the wallet-shock the last time I needed a length to wire up a machine tool. Edited again to add: I've been looking around and there is a cheaper alternative to Kopex on Ebay: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/20mm-Flexible-Steel-Conduit-Kopex-Waterproof-Underground-Cable-Duct-IP54-Per-M/122191835331?epid=526357490&hash=item1c733370c3:g:-3kAAOSwk5FUsUeg You'll need end fittings as well, and you'll also need to check to see if he can supply the length you need as a continuous run - some suppliers can only do relatively short lengths in one run, as this stuff is mainly used in industrial plant rooms and the like. If you think you can get the data cable(s) down a 12.5mm bore, then you could also look at going down to the 16mm Kopex FLB: https://www.superlecdirect.com/p-flb0330-kopex-16mm-liquid-tight-pvc-flexible-conduit-kopex/ Edited January 6, 2018 by JSHarris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frogeye Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 What about just using a powerline adapter at the gate end and just send the data 'through the mains'? https://www.amazon.co.uk/TL-PA4010KIT-V1-20-Powerline-Configuration-UK/dp/B01BECPIMC/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1515256721&sr=8-3&keywords=powerline+adapter 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerbJ Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 Brilliant - this also solves a problem I was facing in the future with getting an Internet connection to the gate, as I forgot to include a data cable along with the power cable that is already waiting for connection when I install electric gate operators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Truth be told you should be using duct rated Cat cable in a duct... It's all very well saying you'll use a powerline adapter but what about gate release, intercom, video etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Has this duct got the finish paving on top yet ? if not dig it back up and lay 2 new ducts it’s only 20m so materials will not come to a lot and you could get it dug out and back filled in a morning with a small excavator. 2 new ducts no water leakage. If you brought a 100m coil you could run 3 just as a spare. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryE Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 About 15 years ago not long after we put in WifI, I decided that I needed to add a second WiFi at the other end of the house because we were getting zero coverage there. Trying to cable up from where our ADSL router was a total PITA so I drilled a hole out through the wall and took the Cat 5 (as it was then) out around the house and back in another hole to a face plate. We had pea shingle over fabric matting and I just pulled back the matting, lied the cable and replaced the matting and pea shingle. 15 years later and my new neighbour is still using it!!. My point is if there isn't a real requirement to do otherwise then why not keep it simple? Duct rated Cat cable needs this rating as a protection because of the risk of having X cables in a duct. In this case surely a 25mm pvc flexible conduit running just under your final paving at the minimum separation would be fine, IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
readiescards Posted January 8, 2018 Author Share Posted January 8, 2018 The power line is one option to remove the data and tonight I could see via a phone app that the wifi just makes it to various parts of the garden fence where the gates, etc are so maybe I can avoid the data. Or as suggested On 1/7/2018 at 19:06, TerryE said: In this case surely a 25mm pvc flexible conduit running just under your final paving at the minimum separation would be fine, IMO. might be the simplest if I route data cable to avoid worse of the traffic. Great suggestion thanks. I also found that NICE do 24Vdc powered gate motors though I can't find what current they need - given 25metres from gate to potential transformer location that could be a hefty cable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryE Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 We had 24V CAME arms on our last gates, though the power to the control box was 240V. There is a max pressure that the gate can apply for safety reasons, and the arms themselves are highly geared, so the max power is only 100W or so, so the wiring from the controller to the arms was single sheathed 5A multicore, IIRC, but this was only between the controller and the gate arms. This was run in a 20mm flexible PVC conduit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Our control box has some pretty hefty capacitors in it that I believe it uses for the initial grunt to get over the motor resistance when they start to open. Not sure what the maximum current is between the controller and the gates but could check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 I've a SLY500 for my sliding gate, 1.5A: http://www.easygates.co.uk/liftmaster-sly-electric-gate-opener.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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