Secondhand windows

[Crofter]

Looking to do a low budget build, some years in the future, and I was wondering about picking up some good quality windows on Gumtree etc. There seems to be quite a lot of stuff around, I don't know if it's from renovations, or wrong sizes being ordered etc. 

 

Question is, would I need some sort of certification to satisfy BCO about u values etc? If so, what would they be looking for, and would it be stamped on the frame or would I be needing documentation?

[JohnMo]

35 minutes ago, Crofter said:

BCO about u values

Not sure BCO will give a monkeys. If the SAP report says you pass go, you are good to go. It's what the SAP assessor wants really. Mine wanted manufacturers calculations for U value for the whole window.

[torre]

Probably depends on the inspector.  One thing they may well check (and you do want to get right!) is whether safety glazing is used where it's required. That should be marked on the glass.

[ADLIan]

SAP assessor and BCO will want documentary evidence of window performance including Uw value & G value (and, as above, safety glass where needed for BCO)

[craig]

If not a available, they do tend to accept therm calculations.

[Gus Potter]

2 hours ago, Crofter said:

Looking to do a low budget build, some years in the future, and I was wondering about picking up some good quality windows on Gumtree etc. There seems to be quite a lot of stuff around, I don't know if it's from renovations, or wrong sizes being ordered etc. 

 

Question is, would I need some sort of certification to satisfy BCO about u values etc? If so, what would they be looking for, and would it be stamped on the frame or would I be needing documentation?

Love this. 

 

Ok,  first thing is if double glazing often the spacer bar will have  a mark and date with the BS code, sometimes the year of manufacture of the unit. So you can bench mark that with the historic U value of the unit.

 

If you can find that then we might explore more.

[Crofter]

38 minutes ago, Gus Potter said:

If you can find that then we might explore more.

It's hypothetical at the moment- was just wondering if I might be wasting my time going hunting for windows on Gumtree.

[Mr Punter]

9 hours ago, Crofter said:

was just wondering if I might be wasting my time going hunting for windows on Gumtree

 

Why would anyone sell good spec functioning windows?  You may get a few one-off mis measures but not a house worth.

 

Another option could be new housing that has been condemned e.g. substandard mortar or foundations and the houses get binned and rebuilt.

[craig]

38 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

Why would anyone sell good spec functioning windows?  You may get a few one-off mis measures but not a house worth.

 

 

You'd be surprised.

Internorm for example offer a purenit transport bead on their windows, I've known suppliers to not add it, making the window full height and nowhere for the window cill to be added, meaning the opening needs increased or new window. If all windows are the same, they all are wrong and need the opening amended or the whole order reordered (it's happened). Tiny little mistakes can ruin an entire order and expensive to rectify, whether building or order related.

Edited Wednesday at 09:22 by craig

[Crofter]

First hit on Gumtree:

https://www.gumtree.com/p/other-doors-windows/new-upvc-window-triple-glazed/1468439009

 

(IMHO it's a ugly thing but you get the idea- people make mistakes).

[Crofter]

This is actually a more useful link- a whole set of windows and much more local to me. Shame I'm not actually looking to buy yet 😂

Could anybody tell me if the stickers on these indicate enough information for me to satisfy SAP/BCO?

https://www.gumtree.com/p/other-building-materials/timber-windows-triple-glazed-as-new/1501911082

 

 

Edit: the stickers say uW of 1.6, which is terrible, and not compliant with a new build. 

I find that value hard to believe though. How on earth do you end up with 1.6 on a brand new triple glazed window?? Even accounting for some frame losses, these are timber.

@craig any idea?

[craig]

Simple answer, s***e frame or the glazing is something like 28/36mm and a s***e frame.

[craig]

1 hour ago, Crofter said:

This is actually a more useful link- a whole set of windows and much more local to me. Shame I'm not actually looking to buy yet 😂

Could anybody tell me if the stickers on these indicate enough information for me to satisfy SAP/BCO?

https://www.gumtree.com/p/other-building-materials/timber-windows-triple-glazed-as-new/1501911082

 

 

Edit: the stickers say uW of 1.6, which is terrible, and not compliant with a new build. 

I find that value hard to believe though. How on earth do you end up with 1.6 on a brand new triple glazed window?? Every accounting for some frame losses, these are timber.

@craig any idea?

 

These are most likely Jeld-Wen windows btw, not that great.

[Crofter]

2 hours ago, craig said:

 

These are most likely Jeld-Wen windows btw, not that great.

It might turn out that all the Gumtree windows are rubbish, even if brand new.

Funny how we have to fit 1.2 uW on new builds but it seems like you can get away with any old carp on renovations.

Doesn't work that way with cars... built to a certain emissions standard and then a few years later you can slap in a different engine 😁

 

I did find a Rationelle window on there but there's not much point designing a house around a single secondhand window.

[craig]

Sometimes easier to call the suppliers/manufacturers direct, they won't list them on Gumtree or ebay (not always), they tend to sit in storage in the hope they can recover their losses at some point. That and they don't like to advertise that they ****ed up.

Edited Wednesday at 15:27 by craig

[torre]

5 hours ago, Crofter said:

Funny how we have to fit 1.2 uW on new builds but it seems like you can get away with any old carp on renovations.

1.2 is used for the 'notional dwelling' in SAP assessment but 1.6 is actually the upper limit for new build. So you can use a cheap but poorly performing window, but will need to spend more to improve insulation elsewhere so may not end up saving as much as you think.

[craig]

That's slightly incorrect, things have changed.

Pre 2022 in England and Wales
Window and doors with 60% glazed area 1.2 W/m²K
Other doors 1.0W/m²K
Upper limit all windows and doors (average/weighted) 1.6 W/m²K

Post 2023 (June)

All aspects, 1.4 W/m²k
https://www.bwf.org.uk/bwf-blog/updated-requirements-for-u-values-in-new-build-and-existing-dwellings/

Scotland
Target U value of 1.4W/m²K and upper limit (average/weighted) 1.6W/m²K
https://www.gov.scot/publications/building-standards-technical-handbook-2022-domestic/6-energy/6-2-building-insulation-envelope/

Edited Thursday at 08:37 by craig