Principal Designer (BR & CDM) - should it be the architect?

[Gibdog]

Hi everyone,

 

There have been some threads about this in the past but it seems new legislation has come into play in 2024 that changes things.

 

There are now 2 sets of PD and PC roles - one for CDM and one for Building regs.

 

My plan was to be the PD both BR and CDM during construction and just use our architects as and when required if we deviate from, or need to change, the drawings they provided. Likewise with the PC roles, as I am coordinating the contractors.

 

The architect seems to be very unnerved by the situation (because without written confirmation, he assumes those roles apparently) and has asked me to provide written confirmation from both the Principle Designer Adviser and Building Regulations Approver that I am recorded as the principal designer.

 

His latest email: "I am so sorry for being so square about this – but the regulations surrounding all this are very onerous now and I would hate for your site to be shut down, you sued etc etc if something went wrong, so there is a real urgency in establishing who is the Principle Designer."

 

So my questions:

 

1. Does anyone else have a Principal Designer Advisor?! 

2. Is it definitely not appropriate to "appoint" myself as the PD and PC for BR and CDM?

 

Note: We have used MBC for both the foundations and frame - they are currently doing the airtightness works.

[Alan Ambrose]

>>> for being so square about this

 

i.e. petrified or is this a fee grab?

 

The logic is (from Grenfell) that the Gov wanted people to take responsibility for the work they did. Duh. Which means now, that they either want to be paid handsomely for routine paperwork / or run a mile, because responsibility was never and still isn't their thing.

 

I'm PD on ours, which lots of people would thing is stupid of me. The main contractors as they rotate (groundworkers, timber framers etc) will be PC while they have control of the site - and mostly only have their own people there. 

 

>>>  I would hate for your site to be shut down, you sued etc etc if something went wrong, so there is a real urgency in establishing who is the Principle Designer

 

A bit of deliberate scaremongering, which suggests a fee grab.

 

 

Edited yesterday at 18:42 by Alan Ambrose

[G and J]

[Stands up as tall as I can]  I am Spartacus!  Oh hang on, no, let me try that again:  I am Principal Everything - meaning designer and contractor.

 

I'll let you know in a year or so if that turns out to be a mistake.   Oh, I'm also the site cleaner and general labourer.  And goods inwards manager.  And logistics coordinator.  And…
 

We told our architect that as self builders I was taking on those roles, and simply telling your architect that you are doing it I believe is enough to absolve him of responsibility, and therefore the need to charge.  Sometimes ‘professional’ types need gently reminding who the client is, but they are rarely ‘out to get ya’.

 

In some ways the principal designer role seems quite simple: you simply have to know everything and keep the whole 3D design in your mind at all times.  Fortunately you don’t have to have everything in your mind at the same time, I now twitch if I'm more than 7 paces from my stack of exercise books (a stack of blank ones from school circa 50 years ago, kept ‘in case’ they came in handy).  
 

I should qualify the word ‘everything’.   We are having a panelised timber frame kit that I and an experienced joiner will try and assemble.  As PD I think it’s paramount that I understand every single junction where that kit touches something that isn’t the timber frame kit, as it’s my responsibility to ensure it all fits and works together.  But I can reasonably entrust the innards of that kit to ETE, the timber frame company in question.  So it’s do-able.

 

I think PC is a bit different.  Early on I read that roles can be handed on but the documentary requirements to ensure nothing is missed appear huge - damn sensible methinks as building it seems is all about junctions, including junctions between peeps in the project itself.

 

So whilst we will be getting subcontractors in, I never relinquish the PC role, I’m always in charge, and it’s always my fault.  Simples.   😉

[BotusBuild]

I am PC and PD and have been since we started building in 2020.

 

I am doing everything I can, including managing subbies while they are onsite, who I have used a common sense approach with - "if you fall down that big hole that I have pointed out to you and you don't need to go near, then it is your fault, not mine"

 

Keeping design related info to hand all the time is nigh on impossible, so do keep notes and plans handy (I forgot them on many occasions in the first few years of 200 mile commutes to and from site!)

[Kelvin]

Except if that big hole doesn’t have adequate protection it’s still your fault. 
 

Despite having a ladder up the inside of the scaffold at the gable ends and a sign saying don’t climb one of the roofers insisted on climbing up the outside of it. On one of the sides the scaffolders hadn’t secured one of the braces correctly so when the roofer grabbed hold of it, it slipped out. Fortunately it jammed itself between two poles. I went bananas at him. 
 

My observation re H&S among the trades that came to my site was most pay lip service to it. The electrician did for obvious reasons. The joiners wore eye protection when using table saws etc. But the general climbing about the building, hard hats, foot protection etc was a bit hit and miss. I had an accident book which a few of thought was funny as they’d never seen an accident book on a self-build. Their attitude was if you don’t write it down it never happened. 
 

Like so much in life everything is fine until it isn’t. 

[saveasteading]

It's all about safe working. An architect is seldom expert on this or present on site but will do the paperwork. Lots of forms and files doesn't make it safe.

1. Don't  have any accidents.

2. Ask each contractor for their method statement. If that is beyond them, sit them down, talk it through and write it up. Use templates as lots is standard.

3. Try to have only one contractor on site at a time.

4. Keep watching and instructing.

Modify your plans if necessary. Keep a diary.

5. Don't have any accidents.

 

I've had several inspections. Some unannounced. What an inspector wants to see is not paperwork but an organised site. Plus he asks who is in charge at that moment.....someone must take that onus. 

The only unhappy  inspectors i have encountered was 1. when the foreman of our groundworker hid away...all he had to do was say yes I'm in charge and talk to the guy. I didn't get into trouble.

2. And I witnessed another rollicking....a national contractor' site manager could not find the relevant method statement in among 3 huge files.

He pointed at me, his subby.

I showed the inspector 6 pages of relevant information and was praised loudly.

 

Keep it simple.

 

[Kelvin]

Keeping a tidy site inside and out is a good point. My last task every day was tidying up and sorting materials out for the next day. 

[garrymartin]

6 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

It's all about safe working.

Not singling out @saveasteading specifically, but they posted last... 😉

 

The thread started with questions about both CDM and the new Building Regulations related PD role, but has then focussed almost entirely on the CDM responsibilities. For the BR side, it's not all about safe working, it's about ensuring compliance to BR in design activity.

[LnP]

On 05/06/2025 at 10:54, Gibdog said:

 

So my questions:

 

1. Does anyone else have a Principal Designer Advisor?! 

2. Is it definitely not appropriate to "appoint" myself as the PD and PC for BR and CDM?

 

Note: We have used MBC for both the foundations and frame - they are currently doing the airtightness works.

Good questions. Have you asked MBC what their advice is? They’ve probably seen more self builders than any of the other people you’re dealing with. 

[Nickfromwales]

On 05/06/2025 at 10:54, Gibdog said:

My plan was to be the PD both BR and CDM during construction and just use our architects as and when required if we deviate from, or need to change, the drawings they provided. Likewise with the PC roles, as I am coordinating the contractors.

Are you qualified to be the PD? And also for Bregs? I have a colleague who fills in these positions for me when we get a turnkey new build project come in, and he has to be book-worming all the time to ensure he’s up to date with changes in legislation / law.

 

A lot of people pretend to fill this role and hope that nothing goes wrong, which I see a worrying amount of self builders doing.

 

Eyes wide shut seems to be a poor choice, but hey-ho. 

[Kelvin]

Exactly my point. It’s all fine until it isn’t 

[saveasteading]

5 hours ago, garrymartin said:

compliance to BR in design activity.

That's a different skill entirely. There's no necessity for one party to do both.