To MCS or not...?

[JohnMo]

2 minutes ago, LnP said:

is there an umbrella scheme operator out there who will work with the client on the design

Maybe, but they have to follow all MCS guidance.

 

So unless you have an actual air test they have to use the MCS figures for ventilation heat losses etc.

 

To take credit for MVHR it has to be installed and commissioned etc etc.

 

I just couldn't be ar£ed with all the faff to get very little in return.

[mk1_man]

I DIY installed my Vaillant Arotherm via an umbrella scheme and it was cost neutral once I received the £7.5k BUS grant.  Headline figures were £4k for 7kW heat pump (250 m2 property) , £1k for 250l Vaillant cylinder and £1.6k for umbrella side of things.  I did all of the plumbing and electrics and it took me 3 or 4 days off and on, it was fairly simple as already had the underfloor side of things installed, I did take the opportunity to remove the mixer and pump from manifold, also removed all of the actuators.  System has been running great with COP in high 4's

 

I used :  https://www.air2heat.co.uk/mcs-umbrella-scheme   Paul was great, he does a site visit, does the heat loss calcs, all of the BUS application etc.  He is also flexible as to what manufacturer you go with and as far as I am aware supports Vaillant, Panasonic, Daiken, Mitsubishi & Samsung.  I had already set my heart on the Vaillant but I remember Paul being a huge advocate of the Panasonics.  I also understand he supports most of the country but may be wrong. A really nice chap so well worth a call.

[SelfBuildSmurf]

Hi @mk1_man, 

I would like to know more about your experience with air2heat please? I've had some obscene quotes for an ASHP, and given the entire house is being renovated room by room and the house needs to be replumbed, and have UFH installed I think id prefer the DIY at my pace route.

Are you a plumber by trade?

Thanks

[mk1_man]

On 20/04/2025 at 06:41, SelfBuildSmurf said:

Hi @mk1_man, 

I would like to know more about your experience with air2heat please? I've had some obscene quotes for an ASHP, and given the entire house is being renovated room by room and the house needs to be replumbed, and have UFH installed I think id prefer the DIY at my pace route.

Are you a plumber by trade?

Thanks

 

Hi, not a plumber just a very hands on self builder.  what would you like to know?  Drop me a pm with your number and I can give you a call if that works better?

 

[Iceverge]

A2A here. 

 

It's working pucker. 

 

You can hear the fan but it's not bad. Estimate cop is 3-3.5. cost €1500 installed, eBay and cash to a mate for Fgas. 

 

Daikin FTXM25R.

 

 

 

 

[Kne]

Im looking to DIY an ASHP. Did you need anything additional for the unvented cylinder install (G3)? I already have a mixergy but assume they would want to use a their cylinder! Did the Vaillant come with all the controls etc in the package?

 

Thanks

 

On 18/04/2025 at 15:43, mk1_man said:

I DIY installed my Vaillant Arotherm via an umbrella scheme and it was cost neutral once I received the £7.5k BUS grant.  Headline figures were £4k for 7kW heat pump (250 m2 property) , £1k for 250l Vaillant cylinder and £1.6k for umbrella side of things.  I did all of the plumbing and electrics and it took me 3 or 4 days off and on, it was fairly simple as already had the underfloor side of things installed, I did take the opportunity to remove the mixer and pump from manifold, also removed all of the actuators.  System has been running great with COP in high 4's

 

I used :  https://www.air2heat.co.uk/mcs-umbrella-scheme   Paul was great, he does a site visit, does the heat loss calcs, all of the BUS application etc.  He is also flexible as to what manufacturer you go with and as far as I am aware supports Vaillant, Panasonic, Daiken, Mitsubishi & Samsung.  I had already set my heart on the Vaillant but I remember Paul being a huge advocate of the Panasonics.  I also understand he supports most of the country but may be wrong. A really nice chap so well worth a call.

 

[JohnMo]

46 minutes ago, Kne said:

already have a mixergy but assume they would want to use a their cylinder!

Why - you can just fit the Mixergy heat pump kit? So why change it, unless it's tiny capacity wise.

[Kne]

15 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

Why - you can just fit the Mixergy heat pump kit? So why change it, unless it's tiny capacity wise.

 

Its 180L so should be OK for my usage. I just thought they would want to pair it with the ASHP and keep it the same manufacturer. I wonder if they could supply the mixergy heat pump kit within the BUS grant? Although it is only about £400.

[mk1_man]

Hi, I wasn't forced to use the Vaillant cylinder but they weren't happy with the re-heat capacity of my existing cylinder be it had twin coils being a solar cylinder.  Instead of trying to fight the point I decided to upgrade cylinder to a ashp compatible version, was originally going with a Joule but found lots of negative feedback about build quality and warranty claim issues.  Very happy with the 250l Vaillant, it heats really quickly and retains heat well.  I installed it myself and then had it signed off to cover G3 side of things.  As long as the Mixergy external plate heat exchanger satisfies mcs requirements then don;t see why it can't be kept.

Edited April 24 by mk1_man

[lizzieuk1]

On 18/04/2025 at 15:43, mk1_man said:

I DIY installed my Vaillant Arotherm via an umbrella scheme and it was cost neutral once I received the £7.5k BUS grant.  Headline figures were £4k for 7kW heat pump (250 m2 property) , £1k for 250l Vaillant cylinder and £1.6k for umbrella side of things.  I did all of the plumbing and electrics and it took me 3 or 4 days off and on, it was fairly simple as already had the underfloor side of things installed, I did take the opportunity to remove the mixer and pump from manifold, also removed all of the actuators.  System has been running great with COP in high 4's

 

I used :  https://www.air2heat.co.uk/mcs-umbrella-scheme   Paul was great, he does a site visit, does the heat loss calcs, all of the BUS application etc.  He is also flexible as to what manufacturer you go with and as far as I am aware supports Vaillant, Panasonic, Daiken, Mitsubishi & Samsung.  I had already set my heart on the Vaillant but I remember Paul being a huge advocate of the Panasonics.  I also understand he supports most of the country but may be wrong. A really nice chap so well worth a call.

Resurrecting this a bit. Looking at the website it seems you jeed a few 'extras' to do this via self install. How did you manage those?

[Dave Jones]

On 17/04/2025 at 09:00, Benpointer said:

...that is the question.

Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous profiteering from an MCS registered company,

Or simply buy the ASHP and UFH kit myself for our self-build, and have my local trusted but non-MCS plumber install it?

 

Quotes so far from a couple of local MCS registered companies for an 8kW ASHP, 300l cylinder and 170 m2 UFH pipes, manifold and controls are: £16k or £20k...  those are after the deduction of the £7500 grant.  

 

Or with my local plumber I could buy the kit myself and have installed for £14k, no grant.  

 

(It would be nice if I could find an MCS person to check and sign it off for a share of the £7,500 grant.)

 

Regarding cooling, I had this classic suggestion from the £20k company who clearly don't understand the basics of physics:

"A simpler approach might be to install marble worktops and insulate the room to minimise unwanted temperate gains".

 

Who'd a thunk it, all you need is some stone worktops, what a marbleous suggestion!

 

there are companies who do umbrella scheme, you or your plumber install and they inspect. ultimate renewables in oxford are one

[JamesPa]

The really sad thing is that the question in the title is worth asking!  Is says a lot about MCS 

[HughF]

I still stand by my ‘nah, don’t bother’ statement…

 

 

[Kelvin]

We didn’t have a bad experience with our MCS installer (other than them wanting to install an ASHP that was far too big). Total cost to me was £2000 so there was no advantage in self-installing it. We had the uplifted rural Scottish grant so the full cost was quite high but nothing like some of the quotes people mention on here. We had a similar experience with the PV panels, battery storage, and gateway. 8.45kWp, 24kWh, plus gateway for £12,500 after the grant. To get both the heating system and the PV/battery system for less than some of the mental ASHP quotes alone feels like a bargain. 

[Benpointer]

We went with Paul Thorney at Air2Heat, who was originally going to provide an umbrella MCS service but for various reasons (mainly to do with the warm feeling we got about his phone and email pre-sales support) we asked him to do the whole supply, install and commission for a price we though was fair, and we got the £7,500 grant back within a couple of weeks.   

 

If you're thinking of a DIY instal but fancy the £7,500 grant, speak to Paul about his umbrella MCS service - you'd still be gaining over £5k after allowing for his commissioning and certification costs.

[JohnMo]

3 hours ago, Kelvin said:

We didn’t have a bad experience with our MCS installer (other than them wanting to install an ASHP that was far too big). Total cost to me was £2000 so there was no advantage in self-installing it. We had the uplifted rural Scottish grant so the full cost was quite high but nothing like some of the quotes people mention on here. We had a similar experience with the PV panels, battery storage, and gateway. 8.45kWp, 24kWh, plus gateway for £12,500 after the grant. To get both the heating system and the PV/battery system for less than some of the mental ASHP quotes alone feels like a bargain. 

So they took the merry p!ss really. Scottish grant is something like £9500, so they charged £11500 for a heat pump and cylinder?

 

Still completely unconvinced by MCS, glad I did the self installation.

[Kelvin]

6 hours ago, JohnMo said:

So they took the merry p!ss really. Scottish grant is something like £9500, so they charged £11500 for a heat pump and cylinder?

 

Still completely unconvinced by MCS, glad I did the self installation.

No the total  included the UFH too. My point was more comparing it to the quote earlier where it was another £16k - £20k on top of the BUS grant.