Indy Posted February 13 Posted February 13 Looking at 3 German kitchen brands for our new place and finding it hard to decide between them. 1. Nobilia - £19.5k - seems like the entry level option 2. Bauformat - £20.5k - a slight step up in quality (acc to the sales person) from Nobilia for about 5% ish more. 3. Leicht - £32k - the most expensive and I'm not sure how much difference there is between Bauformat and Leicht. Would love to hear people's personal experiences with any of these brands? Designs are all fairly similar.
JohnMo Posted February 13 Posted February 13 Been there bought expensive. Paid 4x more for a kitchen in the 90s than I did in 2021. One in 2021 no better or worse. They are all MDF with a plastic cover at best. A good design is way more important, with parts available in the uk, for when the installer messes up. 2
Indy Posted February 13 Author Posted February 13 10 minutes ago, JohnMo said: Been there bought expensive. Paid 4x more for a kitchen in the 90s than I did in 2021. One in 2021 no better or worse. They are all MDF with a plastic cover at best. A good design is way more important, with parts available in the uk, for when the installer messes up. We like the design as it's tailored to what we want. Several hours and visits spent with multiple companies and online planners to come up with that. Re the MDF - it's a fair shout and I do have some reservations. But we can't seem to find a handleless kitchen in the finish we want with solid wood doors. The alternative is a shaker style kitchen - which we don't want (or particularly like the look of). The sales patter from the kitchen showrooms is that laminate doors are better because they're not subject to expansion/contraction etc. What would you suggest as an alternative?
Mr Blobby Posted February 13 Posted February 13 I like the German kitchens. Another German brand, brigitte, is the cheapest I think. That's what we are getting. German kickboards are smaller, which look a bit nicer. That's probably the main difference 🫤
peekay Posted February 13 Posted February 13 If you want handle less, with solid doors, have you thought about getting a local cabinet maker who specialises in kitchens to help? Most decent kitchens use high quality hardware such as Blum or Haeffle for the drawers, hinges etc, so a good cabinet maker should be able to use the same bits and hit the same quality as a German manufacturer for a lesser price whilst being bespoke to your layout/design. There are loads of really interesting materials that you can use, ply, valchromat, Fenix NTM, and an almost endless list of different veneers that you can have applied to ply such Formica, various wood veneer, Fenix etc. Not sure where you are in the country, but take a look at the sort of thing this company do, there will be similar companies nationwide https://www.instagram.com/woodworksbrighton/ 1
Indy Posted February 13 Author Posted February 13 1 hour ago, peekay said: If you want handle less, with solid doors, have you thought about getting a local cabinet maker who specialises in kitchens to help? Most decent kitchens use high quality hardware such as Blum or Haeffle for the drawers, hinges etc, so a good cabinet maker should be able to use the same bits and hit the same quality as a German manufacturer for a lesser price whilst being bespoke to your layout/design. There are loads of really interesting materials that you can use, ply, valchromat, Fenix NTM, and an almost endless list of different veneers that you can have applied to ply such Formica, various wood veneer, Fenix etc. Not sure where you are in the country, but take a look at the sort of thing this company do, there will be similar companies nationwide https://www.instagram.com/woodworksbrighton/ I’m in the KT10 postcode area - Surrey/Elmbridge.
Indy Posted February 13 Author Posted February 13 34 minutes ago, Pocster said: https://uk.kutchenhaus.com Looks like they sell the Nobilia range. Have you used them personally and any feedback to share? 1
Pocster Posted February 13 Posted February 13 Just now, Indy said: Looks like they sell the Nobilia range. Have you used them personally and any feedback to share? Yes ! They seemed pretty good . Any issues were resolved quickly . I installed it so did occasionally get things wrong - they were quick to sort . 1
Beau Posted February 13 Posted February 13 3 hours ago, Indy said: The sales patter from the kitchen showrooms is that laminate doors are better because they're not subject to expansion/contraction etc. As a cabinet maker of 30+ years I can safely say their patter is tosh. Yes solid wood expands and shrinks across its width but thats why solid doors are usually frame and panel construction to avoid the problems associated with movement. Also doors and draw fronts expanding and shrinking a little bit wont matter as there are shadow gaps between them so they wont fowl. I'm not against the look of some of the German Kitchens. Quite like some of the Nolte ones myself. Also I agree with John as when you get under the skin most of them are made in very much the same way with similar materials. What matters most in my experience is a quality fit. A cheap well fitted kitchen will look better than an expensive poorly fitted one 2
peekay Posted February 13 Posted February 13 4 hours ago, Indy said: I’m in the KT10 postcode area - Surrey/Elmbridge. We are only a few miles away from you and used a cabinet maker based in Brighton. Happy to share details if interested. Have you looked at Schmidt kitchens? They have a branch near you in Dorking. 1
Indy Posted February 13 Author Posted February 13 2 hours ago, peekay said: We are only a few miles away from you and used a cabinet maker based in Brighton. Happy to share details if interested. Have you looked at Schmidt kitchens? They have a branch near you in Dorking. Yes please, that'd be great. Happy to receive details via message. Re Schmidt - not yet, but it's on the list before we finalise. There's one not too far in Wimbledon too but we just haven't made it to them yet.
Russell griffiths Posted February 14 Posted February 14 Depending on what look you want, we wanted handle less but didn’t like the look of the metal trims used for the area your fingers go in, we ended up going with a local company who handmade it all in a small unit a couple of miles from us. the trim to put your fingers in is in solid timber, we went with oak, but the do walnut if you want a darker look. 1
Indy Posted February 14 Author Posted February 14 For those that went with local companies that made bespoke kitchens, can I check how pricey it was compared to one of the high street brands or the German options? I haven't really looked at this option even though it does sound very tempting but have it in my head that a bespoke kitchen would work a lot more expensive than an off the shelf one...
LnP Posted February 14 Posted February 14 (edited) We've done: bespoke supply and fit and hand painted in situ (expensive); German brand supply and fit (medium price;) and good local joiner fitting trade cabinets (cheapest). Getting a good local joiner to install trade cabinets is how we will do our next kitchen. The joiner we used was able to adjust the trade cabinets so it was almost like a bespoke and the whole experience was very agreeable and a good looking kitchen. We know people who have had supply and fit (e.g. Wickes and Wren) where there have been real problems with the fitting and project management. The fitters these companies use are driven by getting the cabinets fitted in the time they've been allocated and paid for. When they hit inevitable snags, for example the design isn't quite right, they just want to get the cabinets in and get away, never mind the quality. Very stressful. Edited February 14 by LnP
Russell griffiths Posted February 14 Posted February 14 We had a quote from wren, and Schmidt the hand built one was 2-3 grand dearer than wren and the same price as Schmidt my computer won’t let me upload a pic at the moment our hand built one still has mdf doors, to go oak would have been a good few thousand more.
peekay Posted February 14 Posted February 14 1 hour ago, Indy said: For those that went with local companies that made bespoke kitchens, can I check how pricey it was compared to one of the high street brands or the German options? I haven't really looked at this option even though it does sound very tempting but have it in my head that a bespoke kitchen would work a lot more expensive than an off the shelf one... For a large hand built using good quality birch ply (mix of oak veneered and Fenix veneer), good quality hinges, feet and drawer runners, worktops a mix of Fenix NTM and Valchromat, we paid about £8.5k in materials (cabinet maker built the materials orders with his supplier, who then invoiced me directly for VAT savings), and about £7k in labour for the time in his workshop to build the units, deliver and fit. I sorted sink, tap and appliances myself, but they came to about £6.5k I am doing some of the finishing work to save cost, such as sanding and oiling the cabinets, putting in back splashes. My electrician and plumber did their own bits. Total cost of about £22-25k. The cost for the equivalent from wren was about £15-20k, the Germans were about £35-45k
Pocster Posted February 14 Posted February 14 @Indy your pricing is that including install or are you doing that yourself ?
Indy Posted February 16 Author Posted February 16 On 14/02/2025 at 13:24, Pocster said: @Indy your pricing is that including install or are you doing that yourself ? The price I've quoted above is for cabinetry alone for the kitchen and utility. Appliances are around £6500 ex VAT (need to finetune these as they've put in some really expensive ones as a default) Worktops (Quartz) - for the island, waterfall edge, splashback etc - £8700 inc VAT Kitchen/Utility fitting is around £5.2k - which is not too dissimilar from what our builder ones so we may go with the recommended fitters. To provide an idea of the space - here's a few images of the kitchen/utility space
Pocster Posted February 16 Posted February 16 4 minutes ago, Indy said: The price I've quoted above is for cabinetry alone for the kitchen and utility. Appliances are around £6500 ex VAT (need to finetune these as they've put in some really expensive ones as a default) Worktops (Quartz) - for the island, waterfall edge, splashback etc - £8700 inc VAT Kitchen/Utility fitting is around £5.2k - which is not too dissimilar from what our builder ones so we may go with the recommended fitters. To provide an idea of the space - here's a few images of the kitchen/utility space Your kitchen arrangement is similar to ours . Our kitchen ( ignoring install as I did it ) was a similar price also . I think price wise for a German kitchen you are pretty much on the ball . Can you claim the vat back ? I.e this a self build ?
Indy Posted February 16 Author Posted February 16 1 minute ago, Pocster said: Your kitchen arrangement is similar to ours . Our kitchen ( ignoring install as I did it ) was a similar price also . I think price wise for a German kitchen you are pretty much on the ball . Can you claim the vat back ? I.e this a self build ? Yes, Self build so the VAT is claimable - apart from any freestanding appliances which seem to be excluded. So it looks like we'll have to pay it on the washing machine/dryer. Unless we go for integrated ones but then the cost of the surrounding cabinetry probably makes it about even anyway! Price wise - yeah, been to a few places and apart from a place that wanted to quote us £50-70k for a Hacker kitchen (same layout) - I haven't found anything cheaper. Not tried Howdens/Magnet etc as we like the German kitchen look. The reason I'm hesitating is that I think it's a little too much to pay for MDF cabinets - albeit very nice ones with top quality hinges and lights etc. We've also got a fair number of drawers, a double door larder and storage on both sides of the island, all of which didn't help the price. 1
Pocster Posted February 16 Posted February 16 2 minutes ago, Indy said: Yes, Self build so the VAT is claimable - apart from any freestanding appliances which seem to be excluded. So it looks like we'll have to pay it on the washing machine/dryer. Unless we go for integrated ones but then the cost of the surrounding cabinetry probably makes it about even anyway! Price wise - yeah, been to a few places and apart from a place that wanted to quote us £50-70k for a Hacker kitchen (same layout) - I haven't found anything cheaper. Not tried Howdens/Magnet etc as we like the German kitchen look. The reason I'm hesitating is that I think it's a little too much to pay for MDF cabinets - albeit very nice ones with top quality hinges and lights etc. We've also got a fair number of drawers, a double door larder and storage on both sides of the island, all of which didn't help the price. What I did with all the appliances is get the seller to offer them all too me for free . So if you have 5k of appliances + vat but can’t claim the vat as it’s not allowed on them . Get the seller to add ‘free’ appliances . But increase the total cost by 5k+vat . Then you can claim the vat as technically the appliances were free .
Pocster Posted February 16 Posted February 16 11 minutes ago, Indy said: We've also got a fair number of drawers, a double door larder and storage on both sides of the island, all of which didn't help the price. Oh I know ! . We just added everything we wanted . So slide out shelves , tambour unit ( spelt ? ) , lighting on worktop edges . Even a mitred joint for the quartz worktop end ( think that was like £500 rather than a standard joint ) . But my view is ; you’re probably only going to do this once so have what you want . Not for me to spend your money though 😊
Indy Posted February 16 Author Posted February 16 7 minutes ago, Pocster said: Oh I know ! . We just added everything we wanted . So slide out shelves , tambour unit ( spelt ? ) , lighting on worktop edges . Even a mitred joint for the quartz worktop end ( think that was like £500 rather than a standard joint ) . But my view is ; you’re probably only going to do this once so have what you want . Not for me to spend your money though 😊 Very much the way we went with it as well, including the mitred joint and also shark nosed edge for the worktops (which adds a fair bit of labour). We did have a tambour unit (I didn't know what it was called - I just used to call it the 'shutter/roller' cabinet) but it went away in the final design when we added the larder which will have a slide out shelf to be used for things like the coffee machine, kettle, toaster etc. 1
Pocster Posted February 16 Posted February 16 17 minutes ago, Indy said: shark nosed edge Not heard of that … sounds cool and expensive though !
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