Overflow pipe freezing

[Pocster]

6 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

Good job you had excellent support from myself 

 

Yes . Together we will conquer check-a-trade 

[TerryE]

1 hour ago, Pocster said:

File upload limit needs increasing ... pic

 

 

This outlet design will cause probs, IMO.  The horizontal run will cause standing water which will start to freeze from the drip, building up and then block.  Perhaps a case of aesthetics over fitness.  🫢

[Pocster]

Just now, TerryE said:

 

This outlet design will cause probs, IMO.  The horizontal run will cause standing water which will start to freeze from the drip, building up and then block.  Perhaps a case of aesthetics over fitness.  🫢

Well my friend ! You can just see it in one of the earlier photos that the trunking is straight vertically and horizontally but the actual overflow pipe is slightly on an angle vertically ; meaning that final horizontal part of the pipe has a fall ….

[Onoff]

5 hours ago, Pocster said:

 

Nice job. Did you get a man round to put it in for you? 

[Pocster]

3 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

Nice job. Did you get a man round to put it in for you? 

Yes , and he did the pipework 

[TerryE]

These sorts of trickle overflow are often turned down into a small stone chip or fine gravel soak-away at ground level, maybe the size of a plant-pot or bucket.  The pipe should be insulated to ground-level.  I am not sure where you live in the UK, but the ground very rarely freeze much more than the top few cm where I live in Northants even in the worst cold snaps, so this approach takes the water away without leaving puddling with can freeze and cause a slip hazard.

[Pocster]

19 minutes ago, TerryE said:

These sorts of trickle overflow are often turned down into a small stone chip or fine gravel soak-away at ground level, maybe the size of a plant-pot or bucket.  The pipe should be insulated to ground-level.  I am not sure where you live in the UK, but the ground very rarely freeze much more than the top few cm where I live in Northants even in the worst cold snaps, so this approach takes the water away without leaving puddling with can freeze and cause a slip hazard.

Not a problem for me . The pipe there is over half a meter above ‘my’ ground . As an underground dwelling there’s a massive void down the entire side of the building . So drainage a non issue .

TBH I like it visible . I did consider taking it further vertically . This way I can see water coming out or potentially freezing .

Edited January 22 by Pocster

[Kelvin]

Neat job but I agree with Terry. That’s still going to freeze. You would have had to cut it slightly short of the trunking and insulate it to the end of the pipe or, as suggested, continue it into the ground and insulate to ground level. My water pipe comes out of my borehole in free air then down into the ground. I intended backfilling the area around it with earth which would have covered the pipe and stop it from freezing. However to do that required some landscaping so I never got around to it last year. Instead I insulated the pipe as best I could with a very slight bit of pipe left exposed. This  worked until we had several days of -5°C and it eventually froze. This year I backfilled with earth as originally planned and it’s been fine so far. I’ve also fitted a heated cable down the ducting which I’ve not had to use yet. 

[Pocster]

25 minutes ago, Kelvin said:

Neat job but I agree with Terry. That’s still going to freeze. You would have had to cut it slightly short of the trunking and insulate it to the end of the pipe or, as suggested, continue it into the ground and insulate to ground level. My water pipe comes out of my borehole in free air then down into the ground. I intended backfilling the area around it with earth which would have covered the pipe and stop it from freezing. However to do that required some landscaping so I never got around to it last year. Instead I insulated the pipe as best I could with a very slight bit of pipe left exposed. This  worked until we had several days of -5°C and it eventually froze. This year I backfilled with earth as originally planned and it’s been fine so far. I’ve also fitted a heated cable down the ducting which I’ve not had to use yet. 

Are you suggesting just cutting the small non insulated end of the white pipe off ? I.e easiest option ?

[TerryE]

3 hours ago, Kelvin said:

I’ve also fitted a heated cable down the ducting which I’ve not had to use yet. 

 This a good idea if you want to guarantee that it doesn't freeze.  if you lag down to G/L and use a small soak-away as @Kelvin and I suggest then you probably would only need to turn it on for the few days over winter when there is a sustained hard frost.  We don't have this prob since we vent ours internally into the foulwater stack system using a McAlpine In-Line Vertical NRV (these are designed to allow these and similar overflows to  be fed back into the FW system).

 

The nearest we have is that we feed all of our potable water through a Harvey water softener. This is great for cooking and brewed drinks, but we prefer taste of the unsoftened mains for drinking as plain or fizzed water.  I have a garden tap by the back door that taps directly off the riser before the Harvey, so once every day or so I take a big jug outside to refill all of our glass water bottles that we keep in the fridge from the outside tap.  This is a tiny hassle and far less than that of adding an extra unsoftened water tap inside.

 

This outside tap is similarly lagged and does freeze up a few days a year on average.  When this happens,  I just take a kettle outside and defrost it if our need to refill is getting desperate.  Not really workable option for an overflow.

[Pocster]

8 minutes ago, TerryE said:

 This a good idea if you want to guarantee that it doesn't freeze.  if you lag down to G/L and use a small soak-away as @Kelvin and I suggest then you probably would only need to turn it on for the few days over winter when there is a sustained hard frost.  We don't have this prob since we vent ours internally into the foulwater stack system using a McAlpine In-Line Vertical NRV (these are designed to allow these and similar overflows to  be fed back into the FW system).

 

The nearest we have is that we feed all of our potable water through a Harvey water softener. This is great for cooking and brewed drinks, but we prefer taste of the unsoftened mains for drinking as plain or fizzed water.  I have a garden tap by the back door that taps directly off the riser before the Harvey, so once every day or so I take a big jug outside to refill all of our glass water bottles that we keep in the fridge from the outside tap.  This is a tiny hassle and far less than that of adding an extra unsoftened water tap inside.

 

This outside tap is similarly lagged and does freeze up a few days a year on average.  When this happens,  I just take a kettle outside and defrost it if our need to refill is getting desperate.  Not really workable option for an overflow.

I did think of a pipe heater but thought it was overkill for ( as you say ) maybe a few times a year . I’ll just pour hot water over the casing if I need too - possibly next winter 😊

[Kelvin]

4 hours ago, Pocster said:

Are you suggesting just cutting the small non insulated end of the white pipe off ? I.e easiest option ?

Yes but leave it for now and see if it does indeed freeze just keep a beady eye on it. 

[TerryE]

Just don't forget to check if you do have a long cold snap as letting this freeze and backup will be a total PITA.

[TerryE]

Even though my outside tap riser is pretty-well lagged, this thread has reminded me that I should a nice very lagged booty covering the tap itself.  Thanks @Pocster

[Pocster]

9 hours ago, TerryE said:

Even though my outside tap riser is pretty-well lagged, this thread has reminded me that I should a nice very lagged booty covering the tap itself.  Thanks @Pocster

I have an outdoor tap also so should do the same !

[Kelvin]

49 minutes ago, Pocster said:

I have an outdoor tap also so should do the same !

Only if you use it over the winter. I don’t tend to use the outside tap much through the winter so shut it off and drain the water out of it. 

[Pocster]

15 minutes ago, Kelvin said:

Only if you use it over the winter. I don’t tend to use the outside tap much through the winter so shut it off and drain the water out of it. 

Yeah ; it gets used rarely in winter . But I ordered anyway ( peace of mind )

Then it’s also another “ job “ to fix it ( 10 second jobs can turn into half a day for sure ! )

 

Edited Sunday at 09:36 by Pocster

[Bramco]

16 minutes ago, Pocster said:

Then it’s also another “ job “ to fix it ( 10 second jobs can turn into half a day for sure ! )

 

If you really want a half day job, get yourself one of these. Aquor water systems, also comes with an angled tap with an on/off bit. 

 

Never freezes, you just take the thing out of the socket and all the water dribbles out.  The half day is spent trying to locate all the plumbing bits needed to convert from a US format 1/2inch NSF to metric......

 

They do look the dogs though

 

[Pocster]

2 minutes ago, Bramco said:

 

If you really want a half day job, get yourself one of these. Aquor water systems, also comes with an angled tap with an on/off bit. 

 

Never freezes, you just take the thing out of the socket and all the water dribbles out.  The half day is spent trying to locate all the plumbing bits needed to convert from a US format 1/2inch NSF to metric......

 

They do look the dogs though

 

Cooooorrrrr - that’s at least a few days work !

[TerryE]

+1.  I have a 0.5 ACH airtight house, so I can't add through-wall plumbing willy-nilly.  My outside tap is currently fed from a spur off the riser inside out house, and back into another duct under the slab's ring-beam, then under the patio to a wall-mounted riser.  These flush mounts are really only suitable for new taps where you are plumbing from a utility out through an adjacent external wall.

 

I also use the outside tap once every couple of days, so it needs to be readily accessible.