Soleplate fixing has damaged concrete upstand…

[junglejim]

Just when one problem is solved another surfaces… self building is definitely stressful! I’ve discovered today that the concrete upstand around the perimeter of our foundation (cast as part of foundation raft slab) has been damaged (presumably when the TF company fitted the soleplate) which has caused water ingress… luckily I haven’t insulated and screed yet.

 

I didn’t notice earlier because we weren’t wind and watertight so assumed it was from window opening and area is also concealed under dpc overlap.
 

I’ve messaged the TF company for help but wonderful what everyone’s take on this is in terms of responsibility and solutions? I’ve attached a few photos… the upstand is damaged inside and out where 2 fixings are so there’s 2 photos for each location one from inside ABs the other from outside. 
All advice very appreciated.

 Thank you

Edited Sunday at 12:50 by junglejim

[junglejim]

[junglejim]

Hoping that this is repairable with some kind of mortar but worried it might be a weak spot so want to make sure it’s done right.

[jack]

Epoxy repair mortar isn't that expensive and might work here (although maybe check with the tech department of whichever brand you buy to make sure it's suitable).

 

Not sure who's responsible - I can imagine both sides blaming the other.

 

I'd be tempted to just crack on rather than worrying about blame.

[junglejim]

1 hour ago, jack said:

Epoxy repair mortar isn't that expensive and might work here (although maybe check with the tech department of whichever brand you buy to make sure it's suitable).

 

Not sure who's responsible - I can imagine both sides blaming the other.

 

I'd be tempted to just crack on rather than worrying about blame.

Thanks yes tempted to just crack on but obviously a critical part of the building so want to make sure it’s done right and water/weather tight.

 

 I’ve come across a couple of products. Is this the kind of thing you’re meaning?

 

Fibromix 40: https://www.waterproofingaccessories.co.uk/product/fibre-reinforced/

 

Resincoat: https://www.resincoat.co.uk/en/home/454-resincoat-all-in-one-concrete-repair-mortar.html

 

 cheers

Edited Sunday at 16:27 by junglejim

[Russell griffiths]

I’d be more worried that they have fixed close to the edge, with a 140 sole plate they should be 70mm in from the edge

its a bit shit to be honest and I would be checking every fixing. 
I wouldn’t be happy with the sole plate fixed down with plastic plugs either, do you have frame anchors going down into that concrete as well. 

[junglejim]

56 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

I’d be more worried that they have fixed close to the edge, with a 140 sole plate they should be 70mm in from the edge

its a bit shit to be honest and I would be checking every fixing. 
I wouldn’t be happy with the sole plate fixed down with plastic plugs either, do you have frame anchors going down into that concrete as well. 

Yes I share that concern. I’ve been around the perimeter and checked the concrete. As far as I can tell it’s blown in 3 locations so the rest seem good. Not sure I can remedy the anchoring at all as the building is up and fixed to the sole plate. I’m not sure why they’ve used plastic plugs. Engineer drawings specify shot firing (I’m not sure what that is) I’m speculating but wondering if shot firing would have been more likely to damage the concrete? I don’t know if there are frame anchors as well… but of a can of worms here and not sure how to broach with the company 😬.

Edited Sunday at 17:42 by junglejim

[Thorfun]

3 hours ago, junglejim said:

Yes I share that concern. I’ve been around the perimeter and checked the concrete. As far as I can tell it’s blown in 3 locations so the rest seem good. Not sure I can remedy the anchoring at all as the building is up and fixed to the sole plate. I’m not sure why they’ve used plastic plugs. Engineer drawings specify shot firing (I’m not sure what that is) I’m speculating but wondering if shot firing would have been more likely to damage the concrete? I don’t know if there are frame anchors as well… but of a can of worms here and not sure how to broach with the company 😬.

Have you spoken to the SE about it? Might be worth double checking to see if those fixings are ok. 

[Iceverge]

Not a quality job unfortunately. 

 

Does the house have an external layer of masonry? 

 

If not I would be very apprehensive about those fixings being butch enough. 

[junglejim]

50 minutes ago, Iceverge said:

Not a quality job unfortunately. 

 

Does the house have an external layer of masonry? 

 

If not I would be very apprehensive about those fixings being butch enough. 

Thanks for the comments. No this is a concrete raft slab with timber frame on top. The external face of the upstands/slab is going to have a render finish. We are cladding above that.

 

just out of interest what kind of fixings would you expect on this? Anchor bolts?

[JamesP]

1 hour ago, junglejim said:

.just out of interest what kind of fixings would you expect on this? Anchor bolts?

That is a poor job as others have mentioned. I used some concrete bolts.

It is critical to use the exact size masonry bit and the hole is cleaned out before fitting the bolt otherwise it can split the concrete.

[Iceverge]

1 hour ago, junglejim said:

just out of interest what kind of fixings would you expect on this? Anchor bolts

 

I'm not an SE but the farmer in me would like to see some foundation bolts well cast in to the concrete or else some galvanized straps tieing the frame down. 

 

[Kelvin]

4 hours ago, Thorfun said:

Have you spoken to the SE about it? Might be worth double checking to see if those fixings are ok. 

Yes your SE drawings should specify the fixings and likely wall straps. Ours did anyway. 

[junglejim]

5 hours ago, Kelvin said:

Yes your SE drawings should specify the fixings and likely wall straps. Ours did anyway. 

Thanks. Haven’t spoken to SE yet but will do. The drawings specify shot fired. I think there were concerns though about that being risky as could damage the concrete with that method…. My gut feeling is in line with people’s thoughts on here that the plastic plugs are not a good enough alternative but definitely need it checked.

 

Going to be quite a bit of work to remedy I suspect but need the house well anchored! 

[saveasteading]

The plastic plug method may well be OK, as the loads are well spread through the sheer number of fixings. 600 centres?

But it is not for us to say, when you have an SE and supposedly expert contractors.

 

There may be more damage, perhaps cracked but hanging in for the present.

 

Something is wrong. Too close to the edge is likeliest. And/or Not the right fixings or hammered in  too hard.

 

Yes epoxy will sort it but the SE should specify it. Or the contractor present you with a formal remedial proposal which is not a cement and sand patch.

 

[jack]

I was whizzing through this on my phone when I answered and didn't realise three of them were affected, or that they'd used the wrong fixings. A one-off might be unlucky, but three suggests a pattern. No way I'd be happy just repairing the cracked stuff - the fixings need to be done properly.

 

16 hours ago, junglejim said:

Not sure I can remedy the anchoring at all as the building is up and fixed to the sole plate.

 

Can they not go back and add fixings at this stage? Leave the ones currently in place and put the correct ones in the gaps between them.

 

10 hours ago, JamesP said:

That is a poor job as others have mentioned. I used some concrete bolts.

It is critical to use the exact size masonry bit and the hole is cleaned out before fitting the bolt otherwise it can split the concrete.

 

These are what was specified (and used) on our house. I don't like the idea of shot-fired fixtures into concrete that has shown a propensity to crack, so perhaps you could have a word with your SE about using something like this instead?

 

As others have said, it's the SE who needs to be your guide here. The builder is reponsible for rectifying the fixings.

[junglejim]

Update:

Thanks for everyone’s thoughts and advice. Below is the reply from the engineer today. Feel much better  having this in writing but still a little weary given the concerns raised on here. 

 

“I can confirm the 140mm long Rawlplug screw with plastic plug is the preferred fixing for timber sole plates to concrete up-stands.

This type of fixing alleviates any excessive lateral forces within the up-stand unlike an expanding bolt fixing.”