Call this an engineering report....

[ThomasB]

 A builder came to inspect my property. He recommended a structural engineer. The engineer came and charged me £700 via the builder's company.  This was a visual inspection only, no measurements or pictures were taken. I have just received the report. I found some online sample reports for similar-sized problematic buildings.  They were 6 to 12 pages long. That is what I expected.  However, I almost fell off of my chair on seeing that the report was all of 9 lines long pointing out in short sentences the 9 obvious faults. Not only could any builder see these obvious faults but even anyone passing by the property could make the same list! The report then goes on to say that I should get a lot of expensive tests done - managed by the same builder!

[Jilly]

Were you there? I’ve found it helpful to be present at inspections as you can discuss the significance of findings and ask pertinent questions. SE charges can vary a lot.

[joe90]

54 minutes ago, ThomasB said:

The report then goes on to say that I should get a lot of expensive tests done - managed by the same builder!

That sounds very dodgy to me, £700 for 9 lines!!!!!. What tests is he talking about? When we sold my parents house after they passed away the buyer got a survey done and they made unreal assumptions condemning the place, I wrote to the buyer and the surveyor telling them I had lived in the house for some 25 years and was witness to work that had been done and the assumptions were just plain wrong and not worth the paper it was written on (rant over).

[Gus Potter]

34 minutes ago, ThomasB said:

He recommended a structural engineer.

Sorry to hear you are not satisfied with the service. As an SE myself I write my reports for a particular audience. I could write a report that deals with say complex structural behaviour that is intended to be read by other professionals who would be expected to have a basic knowledge.. even then I would summarise my explanation so it could be understood on a basic level by a lay person... who could be a Judge.

 

When I write a report for a Domestic Client I ensure that I explain not least:

 

1/ Why I was there... the context of my appointment and the concerns that have lead to my appointment.

2/ What I saw when I arrived (photographs). Who the movers and shakers are.. You the Client / Builder and so on.

3/ What background research I had carried out before I attended site.

4/ What I was able to observe visually. If I take any measurements what were they, sometimes this is not easy as folk have furniture / the garden is full of stuff!

 

Now that sets the scene.

 

The detail:

 

What can I see and also what are folk telling me. Frankly I tend to take everything folk tell me with a pinch of salt! I listen everyone and look at the evidence. Construction disputes are a bit "excited" at times.

 

My report:

 

There is a recognised SE reporting structure which I follow but then adapt for my audience. I'm a guts and all SE with 40 years construction experience under my belt so most of my reports use simple language and I take pride in using simple stupid basic English. I got my inspiration for simple English from Professor Barry Hassletine, who is in my view an exponent of this art of communicating.. and I'm still learning.

 

For example a builder or the NHBC may need to read this. The NHBC are an insurance company so we need to make it simple for them, many builders have a higher level of understanding.. but not all. @ThomasB.. your builder seems a bit streetwise hence bringing in an SE.

 

1 hour ago, ThomasB said:

The report then goes on to say that I should get a lot of expensive tests done - managed by the same builder!

And here I smell..shite as you probably do!

 

If there is testing required then this should agreed..what needs tested.. the scope and who is going to intepret the results of the testing.

 

Who pays for this?

 

In the round I can see why you may be naffed at the £700.00 but that is not bad for a basic report well written.. but it seems you are not pleased with your SE's command of simple English?

 

If you want to take this further then post the report and more detail.. who is going to front the cost?

 

 

 

 

 

[Roundtuit]

I experienced what sounds like a similar relationship with architects and topo surveyors: jobs for the boys.... Was there a spec for the inspection?  Not sure there's much you can do, but if it's that poor I'd be expressing my disappointment with the quality of the report, looking for an alternative builder, and maybe thinking about having a chat with whatever professional body the SE is registered with.

[Gus Potter]

8 minutes ago, Gus Potter said:

Professor Barry Hassletine

To add context. Prof Hasseltine wrote a lot of the brickwork design codes and has acted for the NHBC. I had the privalge of working for the "other side" and found him and his reporting to be wonderful. He agreed with me.. the NHBC lost he case. What stuck me about him was his pragmatism and the way he as an educator was able to distil complex issues down to something that the layperson could understand.

 

 

 

 

[Gus Potter]

13 minutes ago, Roundtuit said:

I experienced what sounds like a similar relationship with architects and topo surveyors: jobs for the boys.... Was there a spec for the inspection?  Not sure there's much you can do, but if it's that poor I'd be expressing my disappointment with the quality of the report, looking for an alternative builder, and maybe thinking about having a chat with whatever professional body the SE is registered with

I can see how you may think this is jobs for the boys as the process if far from transparent.

 

There is another thread that talks about the planners being corrupt. When I first started out 40 years ago as a builder there were brown envelopes flying about... before that we had the Polson scandel... which was corruption on a big scale.

 

The planning and BC process is much more professional these days in the spirit of things but the basic delvery of service is very poor. A lot of these young folk are graduates but have no sense of business etiqette. They have not been taught professional manners.. even just to say.. I got your email.. I'm busy.

 

In my view the "corruption" occurs at the political level ( by directing funds and resources.. with a pension pot).. we have lots of this in Scotland, its not cash.. or a free holiday or getting photographed with a call girl.

 

For me I work with builders.. who are on my tender list. They all know I play off a straight bat... but in return they will get a crack at some good profitable jobs. BC and the Planners..  some are just totally incompentant.. but I don't think they are corrupt like the old days.

 

@ThomasB The SE needs to pull up their socks. To put this into context. We as SE's carry a lot of liability. £80.00 to £120.00 per hour is not an unreasonable fee. Your Lawer will charge you more and do less.. funny thing is that it take less training to become a Lawer than an SE or an Architect... and folk moan about our fees!

[saveasteading]

Interesting stuff. Lots of comments as if we had seen the issues and the report.

Is the writer actually a qualified Engineer, capital E?

 

As an aside. When i took my professional exams, 25% of the essay marks were for clarity of writing, but less than half marks in that element eg 12/25 and it was a total fail of 3 + years post uni experience. Brevity and clarity are to be welcomed.

 But there is a limit. Gus describes it well.

[nod]

You will probably find that half of the 700 is for your builders time 

No one works for free Not even builders 

[SteamyTea]

The use of language in reports is interesting.

As quite a few of you know, I spent way to much time at university and hated writing assignments.

As I had to write a lot, usually I would say one thing, in one sentence.  When read in isolation, the sentence should make sense.

I also tried to use words of 3 syllables or less.

I take the American Museum view by assuming my audience was is a 12 year old, until I started my PhD, then I raised it to 14 years old.

Occasionally I accused of being condescending, but that is the readers problem, not mine.  I believe that a 14 year old should be able to read, understand and benefit from others knowledge.

 

Many years ago, I did a Chartered Institute of Marketing course.  I was told to use more marketing focused language.  I think what they meant was to be dishonest by changing the meaning of words.  Facts mean nothing in marketing.

 

I often get asked for advice (usually thermodynamics), but what is really wanted is a simple answer.  I am sorry, the answers are not usually simple.  Try explaining entropy, and why it increases with disorder.  Took me 5 years of higher education, then 15 years of practical examples, and I have still only scratched the surface of it.

As Richard Feynman said when asked to describe what he won his Noble Prize for, "If I could explain it in 3 minutes, it would not be worth a Nobel"