Tomato Energy - Anbody using?

[PhilT]

20 hours ago, JoeBano said:

I might have to look. I’m on octopus agile and tomorrow it’s hitting 91p/kWh at its most expensive slot! Most of the day is around 40p/kWh 

what have the prices been across the whole of the year, on average?

[SteamyTea]

2 hours ago, mk1_man said:

5Kw

It is kWh, not Kelvin rotational velocity.

[SteamyTea]

2 hours ago, mk1_man said:

5Kw

It is kWh, not Kelvin rotational velocity.

[JamesP]

3 hours ago, mk1_man said:

I now have 2 x Sunsynk 5Kw CATL batteries and  4 x AO Lithium 5Kw's   total investment has been £3600 for the batteries. All purchased on 18 month 0% free credit card with logic that I can deduct 18 months of tariff savings off the cost of the batteries before they become a real cost.

 

Hi @mk1_man Thanks for this post. Would you mind sharing a little more information about your set up. 

We have an annual requirement of about 11MWh annually due to 2 dwellings on site, have PV on 2011  FIT tariff with PV diverter to UVC. All working fine.

No EV.

Apologises if rather dim questions.

Why 2 different types of batteries, 

You charge only at the cheap rate, no PV connection.

How much was this DIY or professional electrician.

How does it switch from mains to batteries.

Would the plant room  with UVC  / Consumer units be suitable though a rather constant 24'C.

Thanks.

Edited Wednesday at 18:47 by JamesP
spellin

[mk1_man]

Hi @JamesP   Reason for the two different types of batteries is that I originally managed to source 2 x 5kWh ( better not get it wrong twice ! ) Sunsynk batteries al almost 1/2 price, however when I came to expand decided to go with more generic 'server rack' type batteries as you can purchase at much better prices. As long as batteries are of same fundamental design, in this case 16S (2.3 - 3.4v cells) in series with integrated BMS then you can mix and match quite happily even though manufacturers don't like you doing it.  The two Sunsynks are connected to and managed by the inverter via can bus the other four batteries are wired in parallel as 'dumb' batteries.  The state of charge and discharge is the same across all of the batteries and works really well.  I installed inverter and batteries myself. 

 

The inverter automatically decides when to use the batteries and feed electric into consumer unit based on a simple timed schedule. Same for when it charged the batteries from the grid. I charge batteries between 00:00 & - 06:00 along with heating hot water and running the heat pump at slightly higher temperature just to boost the slab ready for morning. 

 

I don't see why batteries couldn't go in your plant room, mine are located in attached garage. Lifepo4 batteries are extremely safe however not sure I would have them inside the house?

 

 

 

[JoeBano]

2 hours ago, PhilT said:

what have the prices been across the whole of the year, on average?

6/12/23 to 6/12/24 I have averaged 17.56p/kWh not including standing charge, to be honest I’ve not be bothered when we use it so you could get that number down if you want to be careful. I’ve got a 3rd party app called octopus watch, works all my history out and just told me octopus cosy will be cheaper than agile based on my hourly consumption. 

[SteamyTea]

2 minutes ago, JoeBano said:

not including standing charge

Does it include VAT?

[JoeBano]

29 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Does it include VAT?

Just checked no it doesn’t. So 18.4p/kWh including VAT. 19.40p/kWh standing charge and VAT. Which isn’t bad since I’ve used 9000kWh 

Edited Wednesday at 20:37 by JoeBano

[JoeBano]

4 hours ago, ProDave said:

And tomorrows Agile prices up to £1 per kWh for even longer than today.

Good job I swapped over to octopus cosy this morning! I’ll swap back in April. 

[sharpener]

1 hour ago, mk1_man said:

I don't see why batteries couldn't go in your plant room, mine are located in attached garage. Lifepo4 batteries are extremely safe however not sure I would have them inside the house?

 

It's not an ideal location though, I have Pylontecs in a lobby on the N side of the house, even so I see cell temps of 28C on occasion.

 

Also have fitted a linked smoke alarm, and on the other side of the kitchen door a fire extinguisher. Insurers don't mention battery systems so I imagine they are regarded as mainstream now.

 

1 hour ago, mk1_man said:

the other four batteries are wired in parallel as 'dumb' batteries

 

without a BMS how do they get balanced if they need it?

 

Edited Wednesday at 21:39 by sharpener

[mk1_man]

10 hours ago, sharpener said:

 

It's not an ideal location though, I have Pylontecs in a lobby on the N side of the house, even so I see cell temps of 28C on occasion.

 

Also have fitted a linked smoke alarm, and on the other side of the kitchen door a fire extinguisher. Insurers don't mention battery systems so I imagine they are regarded as mainstream now.

 

 

without a BMS how do they get balanced if they need it?

 

 

Each battery has its own built in BMS its just that the four AOLithium batteries are not communicating with each other or the inverter.  All is working well and nicely balanced.

Edited Thursday at 07:48 by mk1_man

[FarmerN]

With Tomatoe Lifestyle, am I right in thinking, if you admit to haveing solar panels you lose the 5 p/unit night time rate?

I'm a pensioner, if I admit to this I lose the 5p rate.

I want the energy companies to be straight forward with me , so I really don't want to lie to them in order to get on the tariffs thats suits me best.

To make it work for me I have to pretend to have an EV or not admit to PV.

 

[PhilT]

1 hour ago, FarmerN said:

With Tomatoe Lifestyle, am I right in thinking, if you admit to haveing solar panels you lose the 5 p/unit night time rate?

I'm a pensioner, if I admit to this I lose the 5p rate.

I want the energy companies to be straight forward with me , so I really don't want to lie to them in order to get on the tariffs thats suits me best.

To make it work for me I have to pretend to have an EV or not admit to PV.

 

looks like you may be right. Heat pump and battery only and you are quids in. If you are a pensioner it costs you more if you only have a heat pump. Solar even more.

Edited Thursday at 11:31 by PhilT

[mk1_man]

I think its more a case of their logic attempting to steer you to the best tariff for yourself i.e. if you don't select battery or EV you don't get the option of 5p overnight instead they offer their version of Cosy.  Bottom line is that they don't check what you have so just choose the best option that gives you the tariff that you think works best for you.

[JamesP]

5 minutes ago, mk1_man said:

I think its more a case of their logic attempting to steer you to the best tariff for yourself i.e. if you don't select battery or EV you don't get the option of 5p overnight instead they offer their version of Cosy.  Bottom line is that they don't check what you have so just choose the best option that gives you the tariff that you think works best for you.

I have just used my details with and without battery storage and no change in fixed rate.

Can you confirm which tariff you have.

Thank you.

[mk1_man]

I am on Lifestyle with Battery storage option :

 

 

 

 

[FarmerN]

52 minutes ago, mk1_man said:

I think its more a case of their logic attempting to steer you to the best tariff for yourself i.e. if you don't select battery or EV you don't get the option of 5p overnight instead they offer their version of Cosy.  Bottom line is that they don't check what you have so just choose the best option that gives you the tariff that you think works best for you.

 

2 hours ago, FarmerN said:

 

I want the energy companies to be straight forward with me , so I really don't want to lie to them in order to get on the tariffs thats suits me best.

 

 

Seems you have to 'Play the system'.

It just seems wrong to me.

[connick159]

On 11/12/2024 at 10:04, mk1_man said:

Its been a week since I migrated to Tomato and couldn't be happier.  Yesterday I used 33kWh at a cost of £1.65  House is nice and toasty, plenty of piping hot water so the other 1/2 is happy also 🙂 

Do you have batteries and PV which would be factored into you cost or just an ASHP only?

I'm looking to switch as well. Only have ashp and are 100% electric for power and heating.

Diolch

[PhilT]

18 minutes ago, connick159 said:

Do you have batteries and PV which would be factored into you cost or just an ASHP only?

I'm looking to switch as well. Only have ashp and are 100% electric for power and heating.

Diolch

You need to look at this page and play around with the options because there are so many, not only different tariffs (x5) but different combinations of "heat source" (x4), "daily routine" (x4) and "Sustainability" (x3)

https://www.tomato.energy/quote

I must say it's tempting but there are two big issues - I get 15p/kWh for solar export with Octopus, worth c. £450pa - not available to me with Tomato. The second is the "honesty" factor - what are the implications for saying you only have a battery or battery/heatpump only (cheapest tariff) when you actually have solar which, if you are honest, would make it more expensive. Why are the Tomato tariffs organised this way and does that shead any light on whether or not it actually matters being honest?

[mk1_man]

53 minutes ago, connick159 said:

Do you have batteries and PV which would be factored into you cost or just an ASHP only?

I'm looking to switch as well. Only have ashp and are 100% electric for power and heating.

Diolch

 

Yes, I have batteries (no solar) and charge them up overnight at 5p and then run the house for rest of the day from them. So far I haven't had to pay for any additional electric so looking good.  My opinion is that it is better to spend on batteries than it is on solar especially when its the winter when you need the electric for the heat pump and generally no solar at that time.  I calculate my payback is 3 - 4 years however I did source some great deals on my batteries.  I am planning on installing solar myself in the spring but to get MCS install the figures just don't add up and there is no guarantee of long term SEG payments?

 

Even without batteries I would seriously consider Tomato Energy Lifestyle, it gives 6 hours at 5p kWh, 4 hours at 14p and the rest at 24p so the average is still pretty good.  A lot of people on the Tomato Energy forum appear to be running this way  i.e. without batteries.