Half of California's Solar Power Sometimes Goes to Waste

[Alan Ambrose]

Original fairly techy and detailed report here:

 

https://ecoblock.berkeley.edu/blog/californias-growing-solar-and-wind-problem/#

 

Summary here:

 

https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2024-11-24/california-has-so-much-solar-power-that-increasingly-it-goes-to-waste

 

 

So, will we get the same thing here one day?

 

 

 

[SteamyTea]

Hopefully.

 

We have about 90 GW of conventional generation in the UK, our current demand is 41 GW, so rather a non story.

[Mike]

From the last story:

 

Gov. Gavin Newsom's advisors and those who manage the state's electric grid say they are working to reduce the curtailments, including by building more industrial-scale battery Storage facilities that soak up the excess solar power during the day and then release it at night.

 

Which is sensible, if overdue.

[Alan Ambrose]

I'm thinking that we're going to end up flipping from E7-like cheap night leccy to cheap day leccy and expensive night time, no? Well, at least in the summer. On Octopus Agile (which is meant to reflect the 1/2 hour market rates) by and large I'm seeing fairly flat rates throughout the day & night except for Octopus's artificial bump between 4 & 7pm.

Edited November 27 by Alan Ambrose

[Mike]

10 hours ago, Alan Ambrose said:

I'm thinking that we're going to end up flipping from E7-like cheap night leccy to cheap day leccy and expensive night time, no? Well, at least in the summer.

You're right - In France that seems likely from next summer. According to the Regulator: To take account of changes in the electricity production mix and the abundance of summer photovoltaic production, stakeholders are being consulted on the gradual adoption of summer afternoon off-peak hours from August 2025"

 

Original in French: https://www.cre.fr/actualites/toute-lactualite/la-cre-consulte-sur-le-futur-tarif-dutilisation-des-reseaux-publics-delectricite-turpe-7-transport-et-distribution-pour-la-periode-2025-2028.html

 

[Alan Ambrose]

Interesting...

[Alan Ambrose]

Another one:

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-11-17/solar-flooded-australia-told-its-okay-to-waste-some/104606640

 

The article makes an interesting point about how that affects grid stability / resilience as well as prices.

[SteamyTea]

If you are interested in load balancing, this NFUEnergy explains the TRIAD sessions that the grid operator uses.

 

https://www.nfuenergy.co.uk/in-focus/what-are-triads-and-will-they-affect-you

 

 

[saveasteading]

When the sun shines and I stay indoors, is the sun going to waste?

 

[SteamyTea]

11 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

When the sun shines and I stay indoors, is the sun going to waste?

 

Only if you anthropomorphize it.

[joe90]

55 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

When the sun shines and I stay indoors, is the sun going to waste?

 

No because it’s still hitting solar panels and warming the air 🤷‍♂️

[SteamyTea]

4 minutes ago, joe90 said:

No because it’s still hitting solar panels and warming the air 🤷‍♂️

There is a change in the albedo.

But

 

Energy Can Neither Be Created Nor Destroyed

 

So it will be doing something, somewhere.

[Alan Ambrose]

Re: Triads. Goodness gracious, the production of leccy is complicated. It’s reassuring to know that it all revolves around tea:

 

Triads typically occur on a Monday to Thursday, during periods of particularly cold weather, at around 5-7pm – when industrial demand and the domestic tea-time period coincide.

 

And it is going to waste if you’re the guy that footed the capital cost for the PV array. Or even the society that conspired to make productive capital available for investment. No?

[SteamyTea]

16 minutes ago, Alan Ambrose said:

And it is going to waste if you’re the guy that footed the capital cost for the PV array

In economics, as opposed to accountancy, if you get your expected return on capital investment i.e. 6%, then it does not matter what happens to any excess.

17 minutes ago, Alan Ambrose said:

Or even the society that conspired to make productive capital available for investment

This is where venture capitalism comes into play, they can decide that 6% return on investment is not enough and start to skew the market.