Internorm KF520

[Johnnyire]

We are thinking of going with Internorm KF 520 windows, has anyone pics of them installed? We saw them in a showroom and they looked great however I would like to see how thick the frame is, can it be hidden in the cavity? Also I have one massvie windows so will be two sections, id love to see how the frame will look at the joint? Thanks

[Russell griffiths]

If you are having a joint, get a detailed drawing of how they join them. 
we have two windows that join and they have a joining strip that fits into a routered out channel in both windows, loads of sealer applied and screwed together. 
 

a friend had a similar thing fitted and he could actually see through the gap between the two windows, no method of sealing at all just a couple of screws 🤬. 

[Johnnyire]

Thanks Russell, I will email them now to confirm. Do you have the KF 520 window?

[Russell griffiths]

11 hours ago, Johnnyire said:

Thanks Russell, I will email them now to confirm. Do you have the KF 520 window?

No norrsken 

[Benpointer]

16 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

If you are having a joint, get a detailed drawing of how they join them. 
we have two windows that join and they have a joining strip that fits into a routered out channel in both windows, loads of sealer applied and screwed together. 
 

a friend had a similar thing fitted and he could actually see through the gap between the two windows, no method of sealing at all just a couple of screws 🤬. 

I wasn't aware this was that sort of forum. 😉

[Russell griffiths]

1 hour ago, Benpointer said:

I wasn't aware this was that sort of forum. 😉

By the time you are near to finishing your build you probably wish you had a crack pipe. 

[Mr Blobby]

On 16/11/2024 at 10:50, Johnnyire said:

Also I have one massvie windows so will be two sections, id love to see how the frame will look at the joint? Thanks

 

We have internorm KF410 windows with one large window in two sections, one fixed and one opening.

 

This coupling is actually very good. 

 

 

 

It is invisible from the front of the window and our fitters actually fitted it correctly (although I am a little concerned it sticks out at the top) unlike our very expensive internorm entrance door to sidelights junction that is a very different design and fitted very badly.

 

You big windows will be supplied without the glazing units installed.  For the installation of the glazing units into the frame Internom supply a sealant type stuff, fix-o-round to be applied around the perimeter to supposedly improve stability and sound reduction/airtightness.  Our fitters didn't use it (they used packers) hence we have a box of fix-o-round on site.  Fitters claim the fix-o-round isnt necessary but I suspect they just couldn't be arsed.

 

 

Edited November 17 by Mr Blobby

[jamiehamy]

2 hours ago, Mr Blobby said:

 

We have internorm KF410 windows with one large window in two sections, one fixed and one opening.

 

This coupling is actually very good. 

 

 

 

It is invisible from the front of the window and our fitters actually fitted it correctly (although I am a little concerned it sticks out at the top) unlike our very expensive internorm entrance door to sidelights junction that is a very different design and fitted very badly.

 

You big windows will be supplied without the glazing units installed.  For the installation of the glazing units into the frame Internom supply a sealant type stuff, fix-o-round to be applied around the perimeter to supposedly improve stability and sound reduction/airtightness.  Our fitters didn't use it (they used packers) hence we have a box of fix-o-round on site.  Fitters claim the fix-o-round isnt necessary but I suspect they just couldn't be arsed.

 

 

We have the 410 in our current build and have two large units joined using same detail, works well, no fuss. The strip can be trimmed at the top with a multi cutter btw.

 

 

[IanR]

On 16/11/2024 at 10:50, Johnnyire said:

We are thinking of going with Internorm KF 520 windows, has anyone pics of them installed? We saw them in a showroom and they looked great however I would like to see how thick the frame is, can it be hidden in the cavity? 

 

I've got the KF410 Studio from 2017 in my Utility and Boot room, which looks to be halfway between the current KF520 and KF410 versions.

For an opening sash, there's not enough frame on the inboard side to cover any more than around 5mm of the frame, before you'd be stopping the inward opening sash from being able to open. So, internally you'll be seeing nearly all the frame.

 

Externally, you can cover the sides and top of the alu-clad frame with your cladding/render board, but not the bottom.

 

On the sketch below the blue block at the bottom comes on the window and I've shown the internal cill level with the bottom of the frame, and the pink is a folded external cill. The hatched area is supposed to show cladding on the side of the rebate covering some of the frame.

 

 

Edited to add:
I have alu-clad timber across the rest of the house and while I'm very happy with them, if/when I do it again I'll think seriously about saving the money and going UPVC through out. The KF410 is a really solid, stable, well built window.

Edited November 18 by IanR

[Johnnyire]

On 17/11/2024 at 18:44, Mr Blobby said:

 

We have internorm KF410 windows with one large window in two sections, one fixed and one opening.

 

This coupling is actually very good. 

 

 

 

It is invisible from the front of the window and our fitters actually fitted it correctly (although I am a little concerned it sticks out at the top) unlike our very expensive internorm entrance door to sidelights junction that is a very different design and fitted very badly.

 

You big windows will be supplied without the glazing units installed.  For the installation of the glazing units into the frame Internom supply a sealant type stuff, fix-o-round to be applied around the perimeter to supposedly improve stability and sound reduction/airtightness.  Our fitters didn't use it (they used packers) hence we have a box of fix-o-round on site.  Fitters claim the fix-o-round isnt necessary but I suspect they just couldn't be arsed.

 

 

Thanks I will query this sealant when the time comes, or even better before I place our order. I have priced around and Internorm are competitive with alot of other brands who supply polish windows. 

 

I haven't seen any pics of the KF520 installed, we only saw it in the show room and when I have asked the agent for pics they struggled to get any from installs. I don't think many get this window, I am based in Ireland so might ask UK suppliers for pics.

Edited November 18 by Johnnyire

[Johnnyire]

7 hours ago, IanR said:

 

I've got the KF410 Studio from 2017 in my Utility and Boot room, which looks to be halfway between the current KF520 and KF410 versions.

For an opening sash, there's not enough frame on the inboard side to cover any more than around 5mm of the frame, before you'd be stopping the inward opening sash from being able to open. So, internally you'll be seeing nearly all the frame.

 

Externally, you can cover the sides and top of the alu-clad frame with your cladding/render board, but not the bottom.

 

On the sketch below the blue block at the bottom comes on the window and I've shown the internal cill level with the bottom of the frame, and the pink is a folded external cill. The hatched area is supposed to show cladding on the side of the rebate covering some of the frame.

 

 

Edited to add:
I have alu-clad timber across the rest of the house and while I'm very happy with them, if/when I do it again I'll think seriously about saving the money and going UPVC through out. The KF410 is a really solid, stable, well built window.

Thanks for this, they do seem like a really good window. I have read about alot of install issues in the UK, I am based in Ireland so hopefully that is not the case here. 

 

Good to know about the sides and top, thats what I was hoping. My only concern is my big windows will have 105mm + 105mm side by side so it will be thick as shown in my pic attached.

[Mr Blobby]

On 18/11/2024 at 19:57, Johnnyire said:

 

Good to know about the sides and top, thats what I was hoping. My only concern is my big windows will have 105mm + 105mm side by side so it will be thick as shown in my pic attached.

 

If you are worried about frame width, then why the horizontal mullion?  Get rid of it. 

 

Many suppliers don't do a full height opening window, hence the horizontal in your image. Did this come from another supplier?

Internorm are one of the few supliers that can do a full height opener, thats what we have and one of the reasons for using internorm.  Looks much cleaner.  I'll try and post a picture later.

 

 

[Mr Blobby]

Here's our big window with the joined frames as your image.  Sorry abot the scaffold in  the way, this is the best picture I have, but you can see the join and the fuill height opener, just about.

The window is so big that you don't notice the join.

 

 

 

One final comment on the windows, and not specific to internorm.  Our fitters measured our windows with 10 mm clearance either side of the opening.  They proceeded to fit the windows tight to the right hand reveal.  Zero gap on the right and 20mm gap between window and left reveal.  I think all the windows are the same.  None are centered.  I did not, in my wildest dreams, expect the windows to all be fitted off centre.  It is extremely annoying because we now need to build out the LHS reveal for plastering.  WTF would the fitters off-centre all the window?

 

In the kitchen we have carefuly positioned the window so that full-height kitchen units will be installed tight to the reveal with worktop underneath.  We can't build out that reveal so the off centre window here may need to be refitted in the centre. 

Do not leave window fitters unsupervised. 

 

One final, final point.  If I was doing it again I probably wouldn't have full height windows.  We have a poorly-poured kore slab and the thresholds are a nightmare.  Much easier to install and functionally superior to have a few courses of block to lift the window off the floor. 

 

Edited November 21 by Mr Blobby

[-rick-]

Sorry for the thread hijack:

 

1 hour ago, Mr Blobby said:

We have a poorly-poured kore slab and the thresholds are a nightmare.

 

Have you talked about this elsewhere on the site? I didn't see one after a quick Google.

 

Not got a plot yet so it's a bit early for me, but when I get there I'd like an insulated slab like the Kore ones so wondered if there are any lessons learnt that you could share?

[Mr Blobby]

20 hours ago, -rick- said:

 

Not got a plot yet so it's a bit early for me, but when I get there I'd like an insulated slab like the Kore ones so wondered if there are any lessons learnt that you could share?

 

Yes.  Do the pour yourself, that is with good local groundworkers/builder.  Don't rely on subcontractors to do it.

 

Take great care with the door thresholds.  Ours is a block cavity build.  It may be different for timber frame, but our thresholds are recessed with, in theory, structural insulation under the door/window spanning the cavity, like this:

 

 

 

This detail is great in theory but almost unworkable in practice.  The issue is with the recess in the internal slab.  Our contractor dismissed my suggestion to install timber during the pour at the recessed thresholds.  He insisted the correct approach is to scrape away the concrete after the pour to create the recess.  The result is a complete nightmare.  We also have a 15mm height difference from one side of the kitchen to the other. 😕

 

The expert installers also joined the EPS blocks with clips on the top, under the DPC.  This means that it is impossible to get the threshold level without cuttig the DPC and pulling out the clip. 🤷‍♂️

 

If I was doing it again I would avoid recessed thresholds altogether (they are probably inescapable if you have a slider) to be like this:

 

 

 

Window fitters will completely ignore everything you say about this threshold detail.

 

Full height windows are not worth the hassle.  Ignore your architect.

 

 

Edited November 22 by Mr Blobby

[Johnnyire]

On 21/11/2024 at 19:39, Mr Blobby said:

Here's our big window with the joined frames as your image.  Sorry abot the scaffold in  the way, this is the best picture I have, but you can see the join and the fuill height opener, just about.

The window is so big that you don't notice the join.

 

 

 

One final comment on the windows, and not specific to internorm.  Our fitters measured our windows with 10 mm clearance either side of the opening.  They proceeded to fit the windows tight to the right hand reveal.  Zero gap on the right and 20mm gap between window and left reveal.  I think all the windows are the same.  None are centered.  I did not, in my wildest dreams, expect the windows to all be fitted off centre.  It is extremely annoying because we now need to build out the LHS reveal for plastering.  WTF would the fitters off-centre all the window?

 

In the kitchen we have carefuly positioned the window so that full-height kitchen units will be installed tight to the reveal with worktop underneath.  We can't build out that reveal so the off centre window here may need to be refitted in the centre. 

Do not leave window fitters unsupervised. 

 

One final, final point.  If I was doing it again I probably wouldn't have full height windows.  We have a poorly-poured kore slab and the thresholds are a nightmare.  Much easier to install and functionally superior to have a few courses of block to lift the window off the floor. 

 

Thanks for the comments. I hadn't even though about getting rid of the horizontal mullion, it was drawn like that in the plans by the architect not sure why and then the windows were priced based on this. We have two other windows with the horizontal mullion so I will ask them to get rid of this, dunno why I hadn't thought of that. Good point though, thanks for that.

 

I actually emailed Internorm after I posted this and asked could I do the big window in one piece, they said they can make it as one window so think we are going to go with that. 

[Mr Blobby]

On 22/11/2024 at 21:13, Johnnyire said:

they said they can make it as one window

 

If you mean make it one big window and no opener (I don't think you do, but just in case), don't forget you need an opener for building regs requirement for fire escape.

[Johnnyire]

Sorry I did mean that but I was wrong, it is one window piece but still opens. Just means it's not two side by side so reduces the mullion by 105mm