G and J Posted November 10 Share Posted November 10 53 minutes ago, ProDave said: Please tell me you are not using a widow maker lead? What’s the correct way of connecting in a generator (I’m not thinking of getting one, but I am curious)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger440 Posted November 10 Share Posted November 10 45 minutes ago, FuerteStu said: Probably got a sticker on one end that says [plug in this end first] to make it safe... Its 15 mins work to fit an isolater. Though you do still need to remember to isolate the incoming before you turn it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted November 10 Author Share Posted November 10 Just now, G and J said: What’s the correct way of connecting in a generator (I’m not thinking of getting one, but I am curious)? A changeover switch Mounted in a suitable enclosure with the generator in connected to a suitable INLET connector rated for the generator output. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G and J Posted November 10 Share Posted November 10 5 minutes ago, ProDave said: A changeover switch Mounted in a suitable enclosure with the generator in connected to a suitable INLET connector rated for the generator output. Thank you. Presumably the left hand bottom two connectors are redundant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted November 10 Author Share Posted November 10 2 minutes ago, G and J said: Thank you. Presumably the left hand bottom two connectors are redundant? Yes. If you look at the detail that is 2 double pole switches bolted together one normally open the other normally closed and that is a 2 pole busbar jumper across the bottom and the left hand terminals are only for connecting that busbar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G and J Posted November 10 Share Posted November 10 3 minutes ago, ProDave said: Yes. If you look at the detail that is 2 double pole switches bolted together one normally open the other normally closed and that is a 2 pole busbar jumper across the bottom and the left hand terminals are only for connecting that busbar. Understood. I didn’t realise that was a busbar. Makes perfect sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G and J Posted November 10 Share Posted November 10 31 minutes ago, ProDave said: A changeover switch Mounted in a suitable enclosure with the generator in connected to a suitable INLET connector rated for the generator output. I’ve been toying with the idea of costing up having two consumer units. One that will be powered by a battery in a power cut, (freezer, MVHR, router/Wi-Fi, lighting, etc.) and one that will be dead during a power cut. But when I think about the cost and resources just sitting there doing nothing and not saving energy just for the rare event of a power cut it feels wasteful and difficult to justify. However the same set up could serve, with the addition of the above changeover switch, with a small generator. Said generator would only be purchased if power cuts became a regular thing, but making the allowance for it might be a good idea… Food for thought (at least when I lay awake at night, that is….) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted November 10 Share Posted November 10 It's a good morning for lessons from Prof. @ProDave. If we wanted the generator just for hunkering down in a corner for a couple of days, then what size of genny would suffice? Freezer, kettle, a few lights, battery chargers, tele, maybe an air fryer can cook everything. Not all on at once. Does a running genny need a minimum load? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted November 10 Author Share Posted November 10 As soon as you mention air fryer or kettle that's 3kW minimum and then only one at a time. There shouldn't be a minimum load requirement, but they will be less efficient at small loads. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceverge Posted November 10 Share Posted November 10 1 hour ago, saveasteading said: It's a good morning for lessons from Prof. @ProDave. If we wanted the generator just for hunkering down in a corner for a couple of days, then what size of genny would suffice? Freezer, kettle, a few lights, battery chargers, tele, maybe an air fryer can cook everything. Not all on at once. Does a running genny need a minimum load? I bought a Keystart loncin 8000 about a year ago. Haven't had cause to use it yet but in a trial it boiled kettles etc just fine. I started it after dry 9 months of no use a week ago to see if it would still operate and it fired straight up on 12 month old petrol. The one tip the man in the shop gave me was to not switch it off with the ignition but rather close the fuel tap on the tank, and let the carburettor run completely dry. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceverge Posted November 10 Share Posted November 10 In other news I also bought a 3000w pure sine wave inverter. I plan on connecting it to my Mrs car battery and hooking the house up to that. A 140Amp alternator at 14V is about 2kW should be plenty for a borehole pump, MVHR, fridge, lights, TV etc. I trialed something similar with a cheap square wave inverter a few years ago but it made the LED bulbs in the house go bananas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted November 10 Share Posted November 10 Maybe a single ring hotplate and a pan is the better way. And a battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted November 10 Share Posted November 10 15 minutes ago, Iceverge said: I plan on connecting it to my Mrs car battery and hooking the house up to that. A 140Amp alternator at 14V is about 2kW should be plenty for a borehole pump, MVHR, fridge, lights, TV etc. My car, at tickover, uses 0.1 gallons/hour. That is about 0.45 kWh, so call it 500W. Only a small amount of that will be electrical generation. Let's be generous and say 200W, or 16A. To deliver more, the engine will have to run at a higher speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceverge Posted November 10 Share Posted November 10 4 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: My car, at tickover, uses 0.1 gallons/hour. That is about 0.45 kWh, so call it 500W. Only a small amount of that will be electrical generation. Let's be generous and say 200W, or 16A. To deliver more, the engine will have to run at a higher speed. I think more modern cars can adjust the revs for electrical load. I could be wrong however. I imagine even 200W is probably on the high side. A really good engine might be above 40% minus all the losses associated with pumping fuel, cooling etc. So a realistic number might be 30%. Similarly an alternator is problem 60% at best. Then add the efficiency of the inverter at 85%. So even if the car is only burning 0.5L/HR of diesel (0.55kWh) then I'd be surprised if 100W of that was ending up as electricity. Still though if it keeps the WiFi on any price is worth paying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted November 10 Share Posted November 10 8 minutes ago, Iceverge said: Still though if it keeps the WiFi on any price is worth paying. My WiFi at home is an old Motorola E5, it has a UPS built in that will last a day (really should see what it does as I have a script that will ping Google and log the times). This thread is turning into a 'preppers' topic. AK47 will protect your private supply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted November 10 Author Share Posted November 10 27 minutes ago, saveasteading said: Maybe a single ring hotplate and a pan is the better way. And a battery. Camping stove and gas bottle. Totally silent, and the fuel won't go stale (though it may run out) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G and J Posted November 10 Share Posted November 10 I’m really liking the notion that the EV that we probably will have one day, could run the essentials in the house for at least a day in the event of a power cut. I think that’s really good resource use. In lieu of an assault rifle will a mildly belligerent and highly sarcastic attitude do? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted November 10 Share Posted November 10 4 minutes ago, G and J said: could run the essentials Once you've cleared the snow off it and the storm clouds have passed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted November 10 Share Posted November 10 4 minutes ago, G and J said: mildly belligerent and highly sarcastic attitude do Better than highly. I wonder what the implications to the local electrician grid could be with say 50% of houses pumping a few kW into the grid would be. Isolation could be fitted, but then people don't want to pay extra for that, they complain enough about the cost of fitting a piddly 7kW point as it is. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of V2G and V2H, but I think it is more complicated than people think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted November 10 Author Share Posted November 10 2 hours ago, G and J said: I’m really liking the notion that the EV that we probably will have one day, could run the essentials in the house for at least a day in the event of a power cut. I think that’s really good resource use. I'm going to work now dear, you can manage in the cold and dark until I get back can't you? (car runs out of charge half way to work)........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crofter Posted November 10 Share Posted November 10 3 minutes ago, ProDave said: I'm going to work now dear, you can manage in the cold and dark until I get back can't you? (car runs out of charge half way to work)........ Obviously it won't work for everybody. But we're talking about emergency situation. If it's a wide area power cut, most people won't be going out to work. If it's localised, surely you can call a friend for a lift? Most EVs have five times the battery capacity of a house, and it's only needed a few times a month, or less, for longer journeys. It seems completely sensible to tap in to that capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted November 10 Share Posted November 10 30 minutes ago, Crofter said: But we're talking about emergency situation. If it's a wide area power cut, most people won't be going out to work. If it's localised, surely you can call a friend for a lift? That is quite true, but it may be better to get some EVs to an emergency discharge point, maybe a local substation and get them plugged in there. It may be possible to modify charging stations for that. That way there would be more control. In my lifetime there has been two main reasons for power outages. Industrial Action Grid Damage I doubt the first is going to happen the same way again and if the grid is damaged, you don't want the possibility of power in the lines. So maybe the better way would be to have 2 or 3 10A constant power outlets on a car and a few extension leads. It is probably safer than a bit of a free for all connection scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crofter Posted November 10 Share Posted November 10 How is V2G fundamentally different to home batteries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted November 10 Share Posted November 10 9 minutes ago, Crofter said: How is V2G fundamentally different to home batteries It isn't, technically. But generally most people will get batteries fitted correctly, and signed off. The problem is not so much with the first users of vehicles that have V2G, it is down the line when the third owner, a man is in a shed who knows better, decided to DIY it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North80 Posted November 11 Share Posted November 11 A video of an electrician wiring in a back-up generator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now