Header/ pressure relief pipe problem. Water coming through the ceiling

[saveasteading]

Water is coming through the ceiling, just about twice a day. Egg cupful? Soggy ceiling of course. It's right below the water tank and the header tank. It has happened before, years ago, and I think the plumber tweaked something. I think I heard pipes rumbling as if the water is overheating.

I will head into the attic tomorrow. What am I looking for? I'm imagining hot water is spurting out of the overflow and splashing out.

1. I check that the pipe points into the tank and the lid is on

2.maybe needs a plumber to adjust boiler or hot tank settings. Any diy advice on this?

[ProDave]

Is the hot water scalding hot when you run the hot tap?  i.e. on the verge of boiling?

 

Vented or unvented cylinder?  I guess vented as unvented would not normally have a header tank in the loft.

 

The header tank in the loft should be cold.  If the water in it is hot or warm, that is wrong.  Hot or warm water in the header tank is usually caused by the hot tank overheating and pumping hot water out of the vent into the header tank.

[saveasteading]

As you surmise. The tap water isn't too hot. 

I will know tomorrow but I'm anticipating hot water in the header tank.

Today can I just turn down the oil  boiler temperature?

[Russell griffiths]

Do you have an emersion in a tank that is overheating, thermostat could be gone and sending water up the expansion pipe. 
check the level of the overflow pipe and fit a second one if needs be. 

[Temp]

Spiders and bees sometimes block overflow pipes

 

 

[Gus Potter]

6 hours ago, saveasteading said:

I'm imagining hot water is spurting out of the overflow and splashing out.

Detective Columbo time for you tomorrow then! report back what you find.

 

It's good to get to the bottom of this so you don't reduce the concentration of the inhibitor in the system or over stress other parts of the system due to one part not working properly.

 

But you know that anyway!

 

 

[saveasteading]

Phase 1. It isnt the heating tank. It isnt hot and it is relatively dry around. There are 3 tanks, up on a platform for height. The timber has been wet for a long time.

Access is tricky so I will clear space and the wet fibreglass. I may strip off the insulating jackets for access and visibility...they are severely mouse anyway.

 

I'm assuming that there are 2 tanks for cold water because of volume and access constraints. 

 

We have just realised that this leak was first apparent after 2 weeks away, with no control heating. 

 

Up there after lunch. Any suggestions welcome.

 

If there's a tech problem I'll get z plumber but they need access too.

[saveasteading]

Good news and can I have some reassurance, see last line.   I found the problem and it is an easy solution.

After clearing away soggy fibreglass and 2" of sawdust from the joists, and soggy tank jackets, I could see where it was dripping. 

I think it has been doing this for months but the sawdust has held it, expect occasionally  it releases some.

 

The header tank overflow is leaking at the junction and also loose.  So I tried to seal it in situ but that didn't work.  Needs taking apart.

 

BUT then I thought why is  the water so high. So then I saw that the float valve isn't closing and there is a drip every few seconds, even when forces shut.

 

Simple: turn off the inlet valve. It wouldn't shut but eventually did.

 

So it is sorted for now. I just have to decide whether to do it myself or get a plumber. It might just need a washer but changing the  assembly is probably as easy. It is apprentice stuff, but sometimes things go wrong.

 

 

BUT am I right in thinking that 8" of water in the tank is plenty for any changes in the heating system? For a few days.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ProDave]

The tank should not be full to the overflow otherwise any expansion as it gets hot just spills out of the overflow pipe.

 

So 2 problems to fix, firstly the overflow connection so it does not leak next time, then the ball valve so make it shut off at the correct level.

 

Chances are the ball valve can be fixed just by dismantling and turning the washer over, unless someone has done that before in which case it will need a new washer.  Or may be simpler to get a new fill valve.

[saveasteading]

16 hours ago, ProDave said:

dismantling and turning the washer over, unless someone has done that before in which case it will need a new washer.  

Holyrood palace supposedly  decided to turn the worn parade ground sandstone slabs over and....yes. the victorians had done that before.

 

The washer is likely to be limed up. But I'm going to break the bank with a new washer....maybe even a new assembly.

 

 

[Russell griffiths]

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

Holyrood palace supposedly  decided to turn the worn parade ground sandstone slabs over and....yes. the victorians had done that before.

 

The washer is likely to be limed up. But I'm going to break the bank with a new washer....maybe even a new assembly.

 

 

Don’t even think of using the old crap. 
go and buy a full arm with valve and all parts new, will take longer to drive to the shop than to fit it, messing with old scaled up crap will only mean you end up doing the job again in a years time when another bit of it scales up. 

[saveasteading]

4 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

will only mean you end up 

With "mean" * being an appropriate term. I've even got some washers in my Pb toolbox.  But I think dismantling the valve will be trickier than exchanging it.

You know, I might even buy a new float although the old one is OK.

* sustainability driven

 

On 25/10/2024 at 20:21, Gus Potter said:

But you know that anyway!

 

No I hadn't thought of that. It may be badly diluted.

 

On 25/10/2024 at 17:05, Temp said:

Spiders and bees sometimes block overflow pipes

Webs are certainly blocking my tubes.

[saveasteading]

Leaks have all stopped for now. floor and ceiling drying,  and dining table safe

So  today I went to do the simple task of removing the overflow and perhaps adding a sealing ring and re-fixing it.

 

Not so easy. I couldn't unwind the plastic nut because it is damaged with what looks like a hacksaw cut. It appears that  the original fitter was at the preschool stage of his apprenticeship. The thread is damaged under the nut...that's why he hadn't tightened it. Had to saw it off.

Also the washer is on the outside.. it should be inside? Yes. Or both?

 

so... pop up to screwfix for a new one?   next day delivery and only in packs of five. cheap though.

so,,,to Travis Perkins. None in stock and didn't really know what I meant.

 

Now ordered from SF.

Yet gain SF stocks annoyingly low, with half of what I want being next day. 

 

Replacement  inlet valves don't seem to have washer seals included, but do have  reduced diameter facing plates that will go through the tank hole.  I suppose it doesn't need sealing because it is above the overflow. I think I will still apply Fernox everywhere though against splashing.

[saveasteading]

All done. took just an hour to change the inlet ballcock and overflow, to which add nearly a week to get the bits together.

I next have a messy job of bagging up the wet insulation, and replacing, and checking all the pipes where I've displaced the foam insulation.

Then regluing the damaged area of the parquet floor once it has shrunk back to size.   Then the ceiling damage.

For the want of a nail...etc.  In this case, a  bodge by the plumber 25 years ago. 

 

Should I add inhibitor as @Gus Potter suggests?  I don't expect the circuit is much diluted, as the water in it doesn't run through the header tank.

[Gus Potter]

On 31/10/2024 at 23:48, saveasteading said:

Should I add inhibitor

If I've drained a rad or messed about with the UFH I tend to top up with a splash of inhibitor. I have a mixed system.. part UF and part rads. Luckily I have a towel rail in a first floor bathroom that is a magnet for an air pocket. I unscrew the half inch cap on the top of the rad and just pour in some inhibitor before repressurising / opening up the flow and return valves.