Retaining Wall Inspection By Neighbours Structural engineer... Questions.

[saveasteading]

3 minutes ago, farang said:

I was going to record it.

Ouch. That would be very off-putting to the professional. 

They could reasonably refuse to allow it, and you shouldn't without permission: it could count against you even..

They would certainly  decline to tell you their initial thoughts, lest it come back to haunt them.

 

A witness is anybody. Partner, neighbour, friend. The best is someone who is a good listener and rememberer, who won't be distracted by the emotion of it.

If they send you an email of what they saw and heard then that is a good, dated record. You can do your version to them while it is fresh.

[scottishjohn]

I agree with all thats has been said  and talking nicely is the way forward 

but surely first thing everyone needs to know is  

 

how was it constructed 

and by whom

the general rule is the ground pressure exerted by a retaining wall or indeed any wall will load the gorund at a 45degree angle from the bottom of the wall 

so if if 45angle hits gound at a level which you have dug down too ,then it might have an effect 

 

by same token if it was constructed correctly there should be no load on ground outside their ownership

 

  eg bottom of wall is at least twice as thick as the top 

 

 EG. if 2m high then bottom should be at least 1m  then down to 0.5m  and with drainage at bottom of wall 

 

 if more then base needs to be even thicker 

 

 how high is the wall do they have a drain behind it to stop retained soil turning into mud 

 

 

 lots of questions with retaining walls 

 

 some of which can only be answered by knowing how it was construucted in the first instance

 

 and what sort of ground was it constructed on 

 how high and how thick is it and what is it made from

 to give you an idea look at a gabion basket site and see hoow they are constructed and remeber gabions do not have driange problems --and do not retain water 

 

not so with  solid walls

Edited October 12 by scottishjohn

[farang]

The wall is about 1.3m high, its dry stone & very old I doubt any foundations to speak of. Its sound apart from where the bushes & small tree are growing.

[scottishjohn]

2 hours ago, farang said:

The wall is about 1.3m high, its dry stone & very old I doubt any foundations to speak of. Its sound apart from where the bushes & small tree are growing.

so it should be at least 2ft thick

sounds like old age 

dry stone dykes fall down with age when they are not used as a retaining wall

 

If it were me  and its not 

i would tell him to just dig it out his side and get a dry stone dyker  to rebuild  it

  a days hire with a mini digger and couple of days for a dyker to rebuld it 

  ly would no way class as a retaining wall  in the true sense just relying on weight of stone to do the job  

 and iam guessing its not leaning back tohelp the stone stay in situ

 should be at least a 6degree lean in at top if it was built as a retaining wall

 

Edited October 12 by scottishjohn

[farang]

Iv'e already suggested that they need to dig out & rebuild it, they wont touch it.

[joe90]

23 minutes ago, farang said:

Iv'e already suggested that they need to dig out & rebuild it, they wont touch it.

Well all our talking here won’t solve the problem, let the guy do his inspection and give a qualified opinion 🤷‍♂️

[farang]

Well i had the site inspection, no pics taken all rather a casual affair. The only thing he said was that the retaining wall is my responsibility.

 

But Ive always thought that unless it states in the land deeds, the land that the wall is holding back  is the responsibility of that lands owner?

[scottishjohn]

1 hour ago, farang said:

Well i had the site inspection, no pics taken all rather a casual affair. The only thing he said was that the retaining wall is my responsibility.

 

But Ive always thought that unless it states in the land deeds, the land that the wall is holding back  is the responsibility of that lands owner?

I would suggest the postion of the wall relative to the boundary will have a bearing on whose responsability it is 

and who built it to start with 

If its all on his side then its his problem 

on the boundary it is shared 

[farang]

The fence on top is at the very edge of the wall ( the wall face is the boundary line) The wall is very old. What about the roots on his side pushing the wall out, surely its down to them?

[Iceverge]

On 24/10/2024 at 21:05, farang said:

The only thing he said was that the retaining wall is my responsibility.

 

Was the retaining wall built originally to allow your garden be lowered artificially below the normal grade?

 

In which case I would say it is your responsibility. The neighbours are entitled not to have their garden fall away because of your failing retaining wall. 

 

If the wall was built as a normal dividing wall, and the neighbours built up their garden above the normal grade I would say you were perfectly entitled to do whatever you wanted with your wall. Including removing it entirely or let it fall down and their garden to collapse too. 

Edited October 26 by Iceverge

[Alan Ambrose]

OK they acheved their first objective. Ask your solicitor?

[joe90]

4 hours ago, farang said:

the wall face is the boundary line

In that case the wall is built on your neighbours land surely? And as such it is theirs to retain their land 🤷‍♂️

[Kelvin]

On 24/10/2024 at 21:05, farang said:

Well i had the site inspection, no pics taken all rather a casual affair. The only thing he said was that the retaining wall is my responsibility.

 

 

Now you know their motivation for the inspection. Expect a follow up letter. I’d get all your ducks in a row now to establish whose responsibility the wall is. It might also be worth having your inspection done to get an ‘expert’ opinion on why the wall is failing rather than just your opinion it’s the roots of their bushes. 

[farang]

The wall is very old, well over 100 years. The property's where built going up a hill, & the gardens terraced with retaining walls. The gardens & their retaining walls all built at the same time, .

[scottishjohn]

22 minutes ago, farang said:

The wall is very old, well over 100 years. The property's where built going up a hill, & the gardens terraced with retaining walls. The gardens & their retaining walls all built at the same time, .

sounds simple to me 

 its their wall 

 

so send them a letter outlining what you know that it is on their ground and if it collapses your solicitor  will be sending them the bill to remove the remains from your property  by a contractor of your choosing

 

 that should do it  and spend no nore and wait for the  reply ,assuming you can pove what you have just said  in your post

Edited October 26 by scottishjohn

[Iceverge]

Can you look at the back gardens of the houses at the top of the hill and the bottom of the hill as see what side the remaining wall is of their property. 

 

It should give you a clue as to what wall each house owns as everyone should only have one wall. 

 

Pick the incorrect one and the house at the top will have 2 and the bottom none or visa versa. 

 

[farang]

Im at the bottom of the hill,,I have no retaining wall, the house at the top has one retaining wall holding their land level.

[joe90]

11 hours ago, Iceverge said:

It should give you a clue as to what wall each house owns as everyone should only have one wall. 

 

 

23 hours ago, farang said:

( the wall face is the boundary line)

Therefore the wall is built on your neighbours land and their responsibility.

On 24/10/2024 at 21:05, farang said:

The only thing he said was that the retaining wall is my responsibility.

Based on what evidence? (See above)

14 hours ago, scottishjohn said:

so send them a letter outlining what you know that it is on their ground and if it collapses your solicitor  will be sending them the bill to remove the remains from your property  by a contractor of your choosing

+1

[Conor]

Right. 

 

A 100 year old retaining wall can be assumed to be well beyond it's design life and in need of replacement.

 

The question then is who is responsible for its upkeep and ultimate replacement? You could argue that if the wall forms part of a boundary, and only one party (you) has access, then therefore you are responsible for its upkeep and condition. And if lack of upkeep has resulted in early failure, then it's not unreasonable that you could be partly or wholly responsible for its replacement.

 

But that's only one argument. And I'm sure there is legal precedent one way or the other, but that's not my realm.

 

The other is when it was built and who built it, and why? If, as you allude to, it was built by the neighbour (original developer/leaseholder) in order to allow the building and landscaping of their property, and is sited within their boundary, you can argue it's FA to do with you. You (rather the original leaseholder) can easily argue that you are a mere third party in the matter.

 

It could end up being a load drawn out and exhaustive experience. Getting a price for the works required could be a wise first step. 

[scottishjohn]

pictures of this wall please

[Iceverge]

21 hours ago, farang said:

I'm at the bottom of the hill,I have no retaining wall, the house at the top has one retaining wall holding their land level.

 

Ok so your saying there's just a wall between each house and none at either end. For example 10 houses and 9 walls?

 

 

[farang]

On the hillside, we have houses going up the hill, some are detached others not, at the rear they have strip gardens, these gardens are leveled out with retaining walls, yes 8 homes & 7 retaining walls.

[joe90]

Despite all the above I still say if it’s built on your neighbours land as you indicate the boundary line is the face of the wall it’s not yours 🤷‍♂️

[Alan Ambrose]

>>> yes 8 homes & 7 retaining walls.

 

Then maybe some of the neighbours have decided this issuse before?

[saveasteading]

As above. Photo? It seems you don't want to or maybe don't have access. But it would explain so much, and perhaps we'd see something significant that you don't.

Otherwise, we're not making progress.