Oz07 Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 So i have drawn up some sketches and typed up the description of the changes we want to make on the plot we are looking at. Existing planning not suitable for us. We want same footprint and envelope but design changes so will appear different. I was going to submit a pre app as seems logical however the cost has made me think twice. This LA charge upwards of 400 quid. I am now wondering if its basically a way of subsidising the department. You seem to just be getting an officers professional opinion which is not binding on the authority. Who's to say how accurate the officer is or how experienced. I'm now thinking for a similar fee you might get a better opinion off a private planning consultant? In my head the pre app still seems the logical way to go. Even though non binding on any future decision it would have to be seen as a positive to the application to have involved the LA in pre app discussions? Over 400 quid just seems strong to me for a planners time. Realistically how much time are they going to put into a pre app and with budgets stretched who's to say you won't get some agency temp who's there for a short term cover responding. Any advice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilDamo Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 Some LPA’s will not even consider a Full application if you haven’t been through their Pre-app process. Have you checked to see how much a PC would charge for a site/scheme appraisal? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanR Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 11 minutes ago, Oz07 said: I was going to submit a pre app as seems logical however the cost has made me think twice. My LPA has now gone the way of any many others and will now not have any discussion during the at planning application. They won't even tell you who the planning officer is and there's no way to contact them. It's made pre planning advice more or less compulsory. While I'd normally recommend a Planning Consultant, sounds like your position has already resolved the areas that they would help with. If your LPA will talk to you during the application I'd suggest going straight to a full Application, if not then use the pre-app advice service and hold your nose of the extra costs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oz07 Posted September 17 Author Share Posted September 17 The thing is I would like an indication of either the LA opinion or liklihood of success before purchasing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oz07 Posted September 17 Author Share Posted September 17 13 minutes ago, DevilDamo said: Some LPA’s will not even consider a Full application if you haven’t been through their Pre-app process. Have you checked to see how much a PC would charge for a site/scheme appraisal? No not checked but wasn't happy with the cost of a pre app. What would a section 73 change of conditions or full application for 1 dwelling cost. I can't remember the actual LA application fees being that high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benpointer Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 We're in a similar position. I used a local planning consultant who was recommend by our EA - the one selling our house, not the one selling the plot were are buying. The planning consultant looked at the current PP, looked our our brief , and met with us for an hour to discuss our chances of getting what we want (which he rated as good). He did this for £250+VAT. Of course we cannot hold him to his opinion if we subsequently struggle to get the revised plans we want through, but it was enough to give us the confidence to proceed. We also to a good look at as many recent nearby planning applications as we could find, both granted and refused. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilDamo Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 8 hours ago, Oz07 said: What would a section 73 change of conditions or full application for 1 dwelling cost. - Full application (£578) - VoC application (£293) But note a Full application may need to be accompanied by various assessments, reports and surveys. You don’t need those for a Pre-app enquiry or an Appraisal by a PC. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Ambrose Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 Both my pre-apps were a complete and misleading waste of money - both exactly wrong. Suggest consultant, do your own research on the planning portal and/or full app and option agreement. Bear in mind - unless your site is very straight-forward you may be going round the planning loop more than one time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilDamo Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 1 hour ago, Alan Ambrose said: both exactly wrong. What do you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjc55 Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 Wiltshire, where I used to submit applications, stopped pre-apps about a year or so ago. Dorset, where we have a planning app in charges about a grand for a per-app! I don't get the posts above where people are saying some authorities will not discuss applications, how is this possible? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oz07 Posted September 18 Author Share Posted September 18 12 hours ago, Alan Ambrose said: Both my pre-apps were a complete and misleading waste of money - both exactly wrong. This is what im worried about. The existing planning is commenced and confirmed by council due to garage footings being started. I dont want to build the house as planned though. I really need a good indication off planning on whether they'd accept before buying. It is in greenbelt but i think classed as brownfield due to previous use Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oz07 Posted September 18 Author Share Posted September 18 14 hours ago, Benpointer said: We're in a similar position. I used a local planning consultant who was recommend by our EA - the one selling our house, not the one selling the plot were are buying. The planning consultant looked at the current PP, looked our our brief , and met with us for an hour to discuss our chances of getting what we want (which he rated as good). He did this for £250+VAT. Of course we cannot hold him to his opinion if we subsequently struggle to get the revised plans we want through, but it was enough to give us the confidence to proceed. We also to a good look at as many recent nearby planning applications as we could find, both granted and refused. I'm thinking a consultant will be cheaper than the pre app. And if the pre app response os not binding on council what is the advantage? Only things i can think are positively engaging with them bodes well and hopefully they'd run the scheme by a manager or experienced planner before responding?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted September 18 Share Posted September 18 be aware a pre-app doesn't necessarily goto all the statutory consultees any of which can kill the application even if planner approves. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oz07 Posted September 18 Author Share Posted September 18 34 minutes ago, Dave Jones said: be aware a pre-app doesn't necessarily goto all the statutory consultees any of which can kill the application even if planner approves. Yes but already has an approval for similar dwelling. Cant see any consultee being able to stop it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted September 18 Share Posted September 18 9 minutes ago, Oz07 said: Yes but already has an approval for similar dwelling. Cant see any consultee being able to stop it of course any of them can, highways,sewer etc etc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oz07 Posted September 18 Author Share Posted September 18 If the new application was substantially different I'd agree. As it's basically just changing the appearance of it i can't imagine any credible concerns from consultees 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G and J Posted September 18 Share Posted September 18 Just a cautionary tale from an oldie .....our first time round in the 90's we bought a plot with outline planning, when we went to full design it turned out that highways had not responded first time round, when they got the opportunity again they tried to stop the development, similarly this time round the consultation period was rerun and a couple of consultees who did't reply first time finally got their responses in, in the second window, all was ok in both cases but......it maybe worth checking that all the consultees did actually respond and what those responses were. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oz07 Posted September 18 Author Share Posted September 18 34 minutes ago, G and J said: Just a cautionary tale from an oldie .....our first time round in the 90's we bought a plot with outline planning, when we went to full design it turned out that highways had not responded first time round, when they got the opportunity again they tried to stop the development, similarly this time round the consultation period was rerun and a couple of consultees who did't reply first time finally got their responses in, in the second window, all was ok in both cases but......it maybe worth checking that all the consultees did actually respond and what those responses were. Id be hoping for a sec73 material change so hopefully no consultation needed. Ive had a similar problem you had previously when i bought something with outline pp and only access was approved. You can come unstuck with outline pp. This has had a pretty thorough application approved and started with conditions discharged. So id be pretty confident this should only really involve the planners. Can you imagine them risking an appeal with costs awarded based on a refusal following advice from, for example highways, when they already have essentially the same proposal approved and started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilDamo Posted September 18 Share Posted September 18 11 hours ago, mjc55 said: I don't get the posts above where people are saying some authorities will not discuss applications, how is this possible? Who said that and in what context? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBub Posted September 18 Share Posted September 18 52 minutes ago, DevilDamo said: Who said that and in what context? You would be surprised at how more council's are putting policies in place to not discuss or allow any amendments to a live application. Lichfield DC have a no householder amendment policy: https://www.lichfielddc.gov.uk/planning-developers-business/planning-fees/6 Southwark Council will charge you a fee to amend a live application, unless you had previously used their pre-app advice service: https://www.southwark.gov.uk/planning-and-building-control/pre-application-advice-service?chapter=4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommoUK Posted September 18 Share Posted September 18 Here's a thought..my planning consultant (previously a planning officer at the LPA) advised that the LPA have been prioritising full applications over pre-apps since the pandemic due to resourcing issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Ambrose Posted September 18 Share Posted September 18 Yeah, some time ago I paid extra for a pre-app to include a meeting with the planner to discuss. Well ESC didn't honour the meeting and didn't refund the fee either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommoUK Posted September 18 Share Posted September 18 ..not too long ago you could turn up at the LPA and sit down with a duty planning officer. Now you have to pay £800 for a pre-app and wait 10 weeks versus an 8 week target for a full planning application. Nuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilDamo Posted September 18 Share Posted September 18 4 hours ago, BigBub said: You would be surprised Not at all now. It’s been like that for a lot of LPA’s for a while. There are pro’s and con’s. The Pre-app process can and does iron out the time wasters. One of my LPA’s which need to offer SPA mitigation for new dwellings, they will not even entertain to validate an application prior to receiving Pre-app advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjc55 Posted September 18 Share Posted September 18 16 hours ago, mjc55 said: On 17/09/2024 at 07:58, IanR said: My LPA has now gone the way of any many others and will now not have any discussion during the at planning application. They won't even tell you who the planning officer is and there's no way to contact them. It's made pre planning advice more or less compulsory. While I'd normally recommend a Planning Consultant, sounds like your position has already resolved the areas that they would help with. If your LPA will talk to you during the application I'd suggest going straight to a full Application, if not then use the pre-app advice service and hold your nose of the extra costs. I don't get the posts above where people are saying some authorities will not discuss applications, how is this possible? 5 hours ago, DevilDamo said: Who said that and in what context? This one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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