Nolte kitchen

[nod]

My wife Deborah called into a kitchen supplier and was quite taken by the kitchens on display 

it’s not a name I’ve heard of

Does anyone know anything about Nolte kitchens

[Fallingditch]

From the research I did a year ago, Nolte are an independently owned, mid-market German kitchen company. I would position them as competing with Rotpunkt, Siematic, Brigitte. Not as expensive as Poggenpohl, Leicht, Bulthaup. More expensive than Hacker, Schuler.  

 

(Seeing as you are in Preston ... after a lot of research, in the end we  decided to go the DIY route so to speak. We bought our kitchen using cabinets, doors, and drawer fronts from TK Components - trade only company in Manchester. Specified Blum runners and hinges throughout. Locally sourced granite worktops. Components from ebay etc. Really happy with the outcome - but you do need to have a very good working relationship with your builders/people who will be putting the kitchen together.)

[lizzie]

I was told recently by someone that works for Siematic that Nolte now owned by Siematic......their ‘budget’ range for mere mortals who cannot afford their very expensive kitchens.

[ryder72]

Sorry thats not correct.

 

Nolte is HUGE and will buy out Siematic many times over.

 

Nolte is a entry-mid market product in line with Hacker, Schuller, Brigitte and Rotpunkt. 

 

Siematic is top end competing with Poggenpohl, Leicht etc. Bulthaup and another notch or two higher. Leicht offers everything Siematic does for a lot less money.

 

[lizzie]

Ok I can only say what the salesperson in the Siematic Showroom told me a few months ago.....she is the wife of a neighbours son and told me ‘in confidence’............maybe I have the name wrong LOL who knows, you have far greater knowledge so another company with a similar sounding name perhaps?

 

Thanks for correction

 

Liz

[ryder72]

As it happens Siematic have been bought out by a Chinese investor in the last couple of weeks. They were against the wall.

[Barney12]

2 minutes ago, ryder72 said:

As it happens Siematic have been bought out by a Chinese investor in the last couple of weeks. They were against the wall.

 

Is there a theme here running through the German kitchen market? 

[Jeremy Harris]

7 minutes ago, Barney12 said:

 

Is there a theme here running through the German kitchen market? 

 

A victim of their own success, maybe?

 

Many people within Europe believe that German = The Best, so that encourages German, and pseudo-German  kitchen companies to grow and spring up from nowhere.  We've even seen British companies spring up with German-sounding names in order to try and cash in on the reputation gained by the better German companies.

 

Perhaps there are now just too many suppliers in the market, and some are going to the wall, either because they aren't selling or because they are financially over-stretched.  I bet the majority of the mass house builders don't buy expensive German-made kitchens, but do deals for bottom of the range stuff that outwardly looks similar to the well-known brands.

[jack]

1 hour ago, JSHarris said:

We've even seen British companies spring up with German-sounding names in order to try and cash in on the reputation gained by the better German companies.

 

It's not by accident that Screwfix's own brand is called Erbauer.

[ryder72]

There has been an overcapacity problem in the German furniture market for some years now and this is all a fallout of that overcapacity. The smaller manufacturers have little hope of seeing it through unless they get bought out by the larger ones (generally unlikely to happens as they are economically unviable or with out of date plants) or get some serious cash injections.

 

The larger more successful brands are thriving and are struggling to build up enough production capacity while the smaller weaker brands are unable to break even.

 

Siematic is a very strong brand. They came out with the first ever handleless kitchen and have a strong following in some export markets. Whether they will survive with a bit of cash injection remains to be see.

 

Alno for all its size is almost certainly going to the wall. No one wants to touch its facilities so the brand may survive in some form but the factories will almost certainly go.

 

I would still say that German kitchens for the most part are much better than their English made counterparts. What the Germans cant do is the English country kitchen or even a shaker. They don't understand that concept and a number of English manufacturers thrive in that space. But when it comes to modern/contemporary end of the scale, the quality just doesn't cut it I am afraid.

[Jeremy Harris]

2 hours ago, ryder72 said:

I would still say that German kitchens for the most part are much better than their English made counterparts. What the Germans cant do is the English country kitchen or even a shaker. They don't understand that concept and a number of English manufacturers thrive in that space. But when it comes to modern/contemporary end of the scale, the quality just doesn't cut it I am afraid.

 

This mirrors our experience.  What we ended up with was a kitchen with German units and fittings, but UK made doors, drawer fronts and end panels.  The major thing we noticed when it came to cost was that the small stuff inside some of the units was a great deal more expensive than bigger items, like doors.  I'm still shocked at how much the glass and chrome slide and hinge internal larder unit was - it was probably the single most expensive item amongst the kitchen cabinet stuff.  The multiple bin unit (separates everything for recycling) was almost as expensive.  My only criticism of some of the German made parts was the instructions.  Some of them were clearly only meant to be understood by people with a degree in kitchen component assembly..................

 

There's a subtle quality difference, mainly in small details, like the quality of the supplied fasteners, between the UK made parts and the German made parts, though, with the exception of the Silestone worktops - the guys that made and fitted them did a very good job. 

[ryder72]

Where did you buy just German carcases. As far as I know none of the German manufacturers sell just units. Their system is based on supply of fully built units incl doors, handles, plinths etc.

 

 

[Jeremy Harris]

37 minutes ago, ryder72 said:

Where did you buy just German carcases. As far as I know none of the German manufacturers sell just units. Their system is based on supply of fully built units incl doors, handles, plinths etc.

 

 

 

It was a local kitchen place in town, since changed hands, and frankly I'd not deal with them again, as they screwed up in so many areas including having to replace lots of parts and paying out for damage their delivery driver did to our drive and the front of the house, that they were a bit of a shambles all told.

 

The kitchen units are definitely German, pre-assembled, less doors and internal extras, and not only was the packaging all in German, but the instructions for fitting the internal stuff, like the larder hinge/slide unit and the multiple recycling bin fittings, were as well.  Not sure of the make, as I've binned all the instructions and all I can find from a quick look inside are a few " LGA qualitats zertifikat" stickers that I forgot to remove. The "rustic" oak doors, drawers, handles and end panels were from another company, but branded as if they were from the supplier.

Edited November 2, 2017 by JSHarris

[ryder72]

Must admit you have got me very intrigued indeed. Let me know if you come across anything in the future.

 

The internal fitting/handles business is dominated by Austro-German companies (Blum/Hettich/Grass/Kessebohmer/Wesco/Hailo) with the odd Italian one (Salice) thrown in and they all have to operate with certain certification standards to get on the supplier lists.

 

 

[lizzie]

Have clarified my mistake, it was Nobilia that Siematic took over not Nolte. Very sorry silly old bat I am, brain strain from all this build stress!

[ryder72]

Sorry lizzie. Nobilia is still privately  owned. Siematic were struggling to stay afloat financially leave aside buy the worlds largest kitchen producer turning over over a billion euros a year.

[SteamyTea]

I am sitting in my Aunt's kitchen, which is almost identical to my Mother's kitchen, except it is in a different country, on a different continent and separated by a decade at least (Aunt's is older).

How odd is that.

 

Both kitchens are almost the size of my house.

 

[ryder72]

Probably same french door supplier.

 

Lot of the stuff that gets sold as the old world english traditional kitchen is about as english as the pope is  protestant.

[SteamyTea]

Or Catholic even

[Jeremy Harris]

23 minutes ago, ryder72 said:

Probably same french door supplier.

 

Lot of the stuff that gets sold as the old world english traditional kitchen is about as english as the pope is  protestant.

 

 

That also makes more sense for our kitchen, as there is a certain French style to the "rustic" solid oak doors, so I suspect they may also originate from France.  Judging from the complete lack of technical support from our supplier, and their incompetence, I suspect they were sourcing components from several manufacturers and then trying to put together a product as if it were their own. 

 

Not altogether bad, the cabinets and doors and pretty well made and finished, and all the internal accessories are very good indeed, it was more the way that they just didn't seem to know how to actually put all the parts together.  In the end I redesigned the kitchen and got them to exchange the cabinets and doors that just would never have fitted, plus got them to supply the right number of handles, hinges, legs etc, all of which were wrong when the original order arrived.

Edited November 4, 2017 by JSHarris

[ryder72]

Ouch Jeremy. That sounds like a poor experience.

 

This is how most British manufacturers and they are called component kitchens. They may either source carcases, doors, handles and fittings separately and assemble it themselves or source carcases with pre-fiitted fittings directly and just add fronts on them.

 

SO when you said the carcase was German but the fittings and doors locally sourced, I am still confused by it.

 

Across the industry france and poland are big suppliers of oak doors. Italians of the more contemporary slab doors and Ireland of the more budget end of slab doors. Carcase material is domination by Egger and Kronospan with local plants. Fittings are Austro-German. So the British kitchen is only British manufatured/assembled in Britain of imported components.

[Jeremy Harris]

It was certainly an experience!  The worst part (apart from two runs of units that simply would never have fitted the space available, and didn't conform to their drawings at all) was the island.  This was a joke.  Essentially they supplied some oak panels, a wide drawer unit, some oak corner posts and that was it.  No fixings, no indication as to how it should be assembled, and not even consistency in things like the panel heights (the rear panel was around 3mm taller than the side panels, for some obscure reason).  I ended up building a frame out from the wide drawer unit, adding some oak mouldings to the top of the side and rear panels to hide the height difference and basically build the island from scratch.

 

It all came together OK in the end, but that was more a consequence of me spending three weeks assembling it than anything the supplier did.  They ceased trading not long afterwards, and much later, when I was getting the big shower tray for one of the bathrooms (from a local supplier, just down the road from the old kitchen place) he had a few choice tales to tell about them.  Apparently one of the chaps that installs his show bathrooms had also worked for the kitchen place, doing some of their displays, and his experience was much the same as mine with stuff not fitting properly.

 

The stupid thing is that the quality of 99% of the components is very good indeed.

[worldwidewebs]

@nod We looked at Nolte kitchens (they have a big showroom inWrexham) - not too bad, better than many. With all kitchens though, a lot comes down to good design and their design was a bit bland in all honesty.

 

We ended up buying a Xey kitchen from the Cheshire Kitchen Company. Similar price (maybe a little more expensive) but waaaaay better quality. There is a Xey dealer near Preston but I don't think their design side is that great. I would, however, recommend CKC - they put a lot of emphasis on design and will do bespoke detailing so you get exactly what you want. They aren't a high street store so need to focus on service rather than relying on footfall. If you do call them, speak with Matthew and tell them I sent you  

[nod]

6 hours ago, worldwidewebs said:

@nod We looked at Nolte kitchens (they have a big showroom inWrexham) - not too bad, better than many. With all kitchens though, a lot comes down to good design and their design was a bit bland in all honesty.

 

We ended up buying a Xey kitchen from the Cheshire Kitchen Company. Similar price (maybe a little more expensive) but waaaaay better quality. There is a Xey dealer near Preston but I don't think their design side is that great. I would, however, recommend CKC - they put a lot of emphasis on design and will do bespoke detailing so you get exactly what you want. They aren't a high street store so need to focus on service rather than relying on footfall. If you do call them, speak with Matthew and tell them I sent you  

That’s a great help 

Thank you

 

it seems to be taking up a lot of our time looking at kitchens and bathrooms I can’t finish the first fix wiring or plumbing till WE have decided