Building Dispute with contractor

[ETC]

What did you sign?

[Alan Ambrose]

@saveasteading

 

>>> A Q S is like a lawyer in that he can argue your case to your maximum advantage and does not have to be fair and equitable.

 

Possible to say more about that? If you didn’t know better (I don’t  ) you might think the QS is doing a kind of scientific / accounting-type reckoning, no? That is, given the job spec you might hope different QSs might arrive in the same ball park?

[ETC]

4 hours ago, Alan Ambrose said:

@saveasteading

 

>>> A Q S is like a lawyer in that he can argue your case to your maximum advantage and does not have to be fair and equitable.

 

Possible to say more about that? If you didn’t know better (I don’t  ) you might think the QS is doing a kind of scientific / accounting-type reckoning, no? That is, given the job spec you might hope different QSs might arrive in the same ball park?

YOUR QS will definitely arrive at a lower figure - that’s what he’s paid to do.

[saveasteading]

5 hours ago, Alan Ambrose said:

Possible to say more about that? 

Yes. 

You can certainly instruct a QS to do whatever you want.

Do you want them to do what we are doing here? Advise you and help your argument?

Or forensically check the bills to date? Remember that 4 contractors give 4 different prices....hence tendering. So 4  x qs  also different.

 

Or argue everything possible to reduce your cost to the minimum?

 

Your contractor may then feel inspired, or required, to do the same and set the 2x qs arguing for you.

  A different qs may then be required. They are claims specialists, basically a cheaper lawyer at £200/ hour instead of £400.

 

The next stage is the law. Loser pays nearly all costs. Winner still has costs.

If there was a contract then the process would be set out. There isn't sk you either ore-agree the process or go to a lawyer.....and bang goes many £k for each of you.

 

As any biggish contractor, I've had dusputes mostlh chading final payments.  Won nearly all of them but you never really win and it involves time and stress.

Do you feel lucky?

[Alan Ambrose]

@saveasteading  Know any hard-arsed QS to argue the client's case on a £2.5m project? To be clear, this is not my project but one I'm familiar with and the contractor's QS has gone rogue.

[SteamyTea]

On 11/07/2024 at 10:56, Jilly said:

In these situations, I feel a friendship acquires an actual monetary value.

I had a girlfriend who was a 'saver', I always knew how much she had saved, it equalled my overdraft.

[saveasteading]

16 minutes ago, Alan Ambrose said:

Know any hard-arsed QS to argue the client's case

I've looked up the guy I used 5 or 6 times but he seems to have retired.

 

Previously used a local lawyer who wasted our money because of lacking expertise.

 Latterly a very expensive specialist  london lawyer. I think I'd ask them for a recommendation. Your contact should do similar?

Being in the right is an essential start.

 

 

[saveasteading]

I have discussed the levy claim with someone else in the business. They say the contractor should absorb the cost because a) it is an overhead included in the percentage added. B) they are the industry professional and should have set this up better.

[Dave Jones]

On 13/07/2024 at 18:44, Alan Ambrose said:

@saveasteading  Know any hard-arsed QS to argue the client's case on a £2.5m project? To be clear, this is not my project but one I'm familiar with and the contractor's QS has gone rogue.

 

2.5M without any bank borrowing ? Unlikely.

 

The bank will have their own QS / chartered surveyor.

 

Can't see its that difficult really, only issue is agreeing what % complete a particular build element is. Then its just applying that % against the original QS schedule.

 

Guessing it falls of the rails where the money is gone and build not complete as it hasn't been managed properly due to unqualified client penny pinching not employing a professional PM from the start.

[saveasteading]

1 hour ago, Dave Jones said:

Then its just applying that % against the original QS schedule.

Except when the client decides not to pay the last instalment. Theyve got their building now, so why pay? Then their qs can invent quality issues. Main contractors do the same. 

They are used to bullying and winning.

I even had one MD tell me he never pays a bill if he doesn't need the supplier any longer. True to expectation....qs appointed to avoid the  last payment.

I didn't get the money as i decided not to get legal, and he found he was missing something rather important but had paid for it.

Very unpleasant.

Nice clients get full cooperation and extra value.

 

[Moonshine]

8 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

I even had one MD tell me he never pays a bill if he doesn't need the supplier any longer. True to expectation....qs appointed to avoid the  last payment.

fecking scumbag

[Alan Ambrose]

Sorry to divert the thread a little, but it is still on the subject of determining fair overrun amounts.

 

>>> 2.5M without any bank borrowing ? Unlikely.

 

It's a cladding project and mostly paid for by the government. No borrowing or bank QS. The contractor refused to give any progress on time or budget until a few weeks before expected completion. At that point the QS went in very aggressively with a 10 week overrun on a 27-week project plus scope to overrun further. The QS has supplied no calculations. Minimal extra work has been discovered to add to the project costs. The client has never run this kind of project before...

[Dave Jones]

On 16/07/2024 at 10:16, Alan Ambrose said:

Sorry to divert the thread a little, but it is still on the subject of determining fair overrun amounts.

 

>>> 2.5M without any bank borrowing ? Unlikely.

 

It's a cladding project and mostly paid for by the government. No borrowing or bank QS. The contractor refused to give any progress on time or budget until a few weeks before expected completion. At that point the QS went in very aggressively with a 10 week overrun on a 27-week project plus scope to overrun further. The QS has supplied no calculations. Minimal extra work has been discovered to add to the project costs. The client has never run this kind of project before...

 

depends how mickey mouse the whole setup is from the start.

 

liquidated damages in the contract ?

[Alan Ambrose]

>>> depends how mickey mouse the whole setup is from the start.

 

Client - well meaning but properly naive and just hoping the gov will pick up any overrun. Gov funder - has a bunch of lawyers, contracts and procedures, is properly slow, and also fairly naive about the ability of the people they give the money to to actually execute the job well. Contractor: work a bit slapdash, spun the client a tale about not being able to know whether they were on budget/timescale until a few weeks before the original completion date. Contractor's QS now going for the jugular to the tune of £0.5-0.75m. It is government money after all and the bosses really want some new Range Rovers.