Help please on insulation options

[Declan52]

Price all the different thicknesses up and price the different lengths of screws you would need. If it was me I would be looking at a minimum of 50mm and if the budget allowed then as close to the 100mm as I could get would be my aim. 

What you will save by not using the TX gold stuff will help towards covering the extra cost. 

You can also use 500gauge polythene as a vcl. It doesn't have to be a £200 roll of some fancy brand variety. Again suit your budget. Some builders use it some don't. Some like it some don't. But it would be better than nothing.

[ProDave]

Knauf Earthwool Frametherm 35 is the product you want, available on a roll, or batts. Batts are probably better for a roof.Conveniently available in 90mm thickness and 2 layers nicely fills between 195mm timbers.

I am using the roll version in my walls:

[janedevon]

Many thanks this is looking promising, so I'll need double my area of roof worth of earthwool around 300msq presumably I'll be able to get this in bulk and hopefully find a good price, I imagine this will be fine for my internal walls too as they are 89mm in which case I'll order more.

 

I'll price celotex or equivalent and compare prices, on thickness I don't think I'll want too thick as it will eat into celing height of bedrooms maybe iI'll wait until frame is up to decide, I'll speak to electrician about a service void I imagine we won't need one as we should have options close to the eaves unused space I think.

Any tips on best priced suppliers or just pot luck?

 

 

 

 

[Crofter]

Try www.secondsandco.co.uk for bargains but you might need to wait several weeks and keep checking until the stuff you want comes up. Very cheap, though!

 

Wickes are surprisingly cheap for insulation, they might sell it as a loss leader.

[ProDave]

The cheapest price I got was from SIG in Inverness. I believe they are a national chain so worth a try?

[janedevon]

Think I've opened up a can of my own worms, been checking through my building reg plans and external walls are spec as 140mm frametherm 32, my timber frame company have included insulating outside walls in my job but on reading their spec they state 140mm mineral wool batt, I'm guessing this isn't as effective as the spec on my drawings, so will either have to get them to requote using better stuff or do it myself.

 

one problem leads to another

 

 

[Nickfromwales]

But a problem identified sooner than later . 

[PeterW]

37 minutes ago, janedevon said:

Think ive opened up a can of my own worms, been checking through my building reg plans and external walls are spec as 140mm frametherm 32, my timber frame company have included insulating outside walls in my job but on reading their spec they state 140mm mineral wool batt, im guessing this isnt as effective as the spec on my drawings, so will either have to get them to  requote using better stuff or do it myself.

 

one problem leads to another

 

 

Mineral wall batt and Frametherm are the same thing ... Just get them to confirm the density

[janedevon]

23 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

Baker? 

2 bacon and cheese puffs and a split donut please  You've just validated your lifetime pass

 

Come down here and do my heating install  free bakery products and lovely Devon weather

[Nickfromwales]

Let me think about it. 

[Declan52]

I would be 25 stone if I worked near a bakery. Love bread and buns.

[janedevon]

This looks a fair price

 

http://discountbuildsupplies.co.uk.172-245-29-220.vp-stores.com/shopexd.asp?id=17732

 

£42.25 a roll inc vat amd delivery

[ProDave]

14 minutes ago, janedevon said:

This looks a fair price

 

http://discountbuildsupplies.co.uk.172-245-29-220.vp-stores.com/shopexd.asp?id=17732

 

£42.25 a roll inc vat amd delivery

I paid less than half that per roll from SIG so look again. (I bought 65 rolls) Delivered on their own waggon, one with a forklift truck hanging on the back to unload it.

[janedevon]

I'll keep trying lol will try SIG tomorrow

[janedevon]

Tried SIG and a few others and oddly they all must have a deal going with the rep from ACTIS as 3 replied with more or less the same quote all ignoring my request for price of the batts and offering a 5k option of ACTIS blue and a range of ACTIS products exactly what I was trying to avoid.

 

the seatch comtinues

[PeterW]

59 minutes ago, janedevon said:

Tried SIG and a few others and oddly they all must have a deal going with the rep from ACTIS as 3 replied with more or less the same quote all ignoring my request for price of the batts and offering a 5k option of ACTIS blue and a range of ACTIS products exactly what I was trying to avoid.

 

the seatch comtinues

Is this in relation to a request to provide Frametherm or something similar ..?

Have you tried Insulation Giant as a starting point online ..? Then get the quote and spec and ask them to price against that. If they send back prices for Actis after that, find a new BM..!

[janedevon]

3 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Is this in relation to a request to provide Frametherm or something similar ..?

Have you tried Insulation Giant as a starting point online ..? Then get the quote and spec and ask them to price against that. If they send back prices for Actis after that, find a new BM..!

Yes exactly that!!

 

as discussed on this thread i asked for a quote for batt and celotex and got a quote for actis from 3 suppliers totally ignoring my request. Ill do exactly that this afternoon and see if i can get somewhere.

[janedevon]

For a 150m2 roof coverage, the following quantities will be required:

 

Boost’R Hybrid x 15 rolls £ 56.00 roll

150mm Hybris x 40 rolls (3.84m2 p/roll) £35.25 roll

Mulitdhesif Tape to seal joins of the Boost’R x 5 rolls (1 roll of tape to every 3 rolls of Boost’R or HControl) £5.99 roll

 

90mm Hybris could also be used instead of the 90mm wool batts in the partition walls. £31.00 roll

[ProDave]

1 hour ago, janedevon said:

Tried SIG and a few others and oddly they all must have a deal going with the rep from ACTIS as 3 replied with more or less the same quote all ignoring my request for price of the batts and offering a 5k option of ACTIS blue and a range of ACTIS products exactly what I was trying to avoid.

 

the seatch comtinues

I would phone them and ask WHY they quoted for something different, and could I please have the quute for the items I wanted.

[PeterW]

8 minutes ago, janedevon said:

For a 150m2 roof coverage, the following quantities will be required:

 

Boost’R Hybrid x 15 rolls £ 56.00 roll

150mm Hybris x 40 rolls (3.84m2 p/roll) £35.25 roll

Mulitdhesif Tape to seal joins of the Boost’R x 5 rolls (1 roll of tape to every 3 rolls of Boost’R or HControl) £5.99 roll

 

90mm Hybris could also be used instead of the 90mm wool batts in the partition walls. £31.00 roll

Ok so the Hybris cannot be used in a wall as acoustic insulation as it has negligible acoustic properties ..!! 

Is this SIG telling you this ..???

[janedevon]

Basically the 2 firms i asked for a quote forwarded my info to an ACTIS rep who provided them with the information, identical rather than quote me for my requested products, i guess its hard sell in this area as a couple of builders i chatted to are both installing the same product on a couple of projects nearby.

Now i have the actis rep,offering to come for a site visit!!!

[PeterW]

So I've had a quick look - these are straight off Insulation4Less and I've compared to your current SIG price for Actis

Prod	No	Qty	Unit £	Total £
Boost’R Hybrid	15		£           56.00	£                     840.00
150mm Hybris(3.84m2 p/roll)	40		£           35.25	£               1,410.00
Mulitdhesif Tape	3		£              5.99	£                     17.97
90mm Knauf Frametherm Roll 40 (10.94m2 p/roll)	Pt 24	525 Sqm	£         662.40	£                   1324.80
Celotex 45mm	55	158 Sqm	£           11.85	£                   651.75
Foil Tape	3		£              8.00	£                     24.00
90mm Knauf Frametherm Roll 35 (6.84m2 p/roll)	Pt 24	328 Sqm	£         759.36	£               1,518.72
Celotex 25mm	55	158 Sqm	£              9.35	£                   514.25
Foil Tape	3		£              8.00	£                     24.00

 

All get the 0.16 uValue as far as I can see with 200x48 joists at 600mm centres

 

 

[Jeremy Harris]

 

On 26/06/2016 at 10:40, janedevon said:

Basically the 2 firms i asked for a quote forwarded my info to an ACTIS rep who provided them with the information, identical rather than quote me for my requested products, i guess its hard sell in this area as a couple of builders i chatted to are both installing the same product on a couple of projects nearby.

Now i have the actis rep,offering to come for a site visit!!!

This supplier really is an unethical company, aren't they?  I mean, when you approach a retailer for a quote for a product you do not expect that retailer to be got at by a manufacturer, to ignore your specific request and give you a quote for a different product.  For two retailers to do the same sounds very dodgy indeed, as it sounds close to being a cartel (which is illegal).

 

Edited to add:

Under sufferance, and not because I agree one bit with it, I've edited the above to high light the intention and added the text below for the avoidance of doubt:

The observation I was making here, and which has attracted criticism much later in this thread, was that a builders merchant had been approached to quote for a specific product, with specific performance parameters relating to thermal resistance, acoustic insulation properties and decrement delay time.  Instead of offering to supply a product, or an alternative that met all the same performance requirements, it offered an alternative that fell well short of meeting the acoustic and decrement delay requirements.  I consider that to be unethical behaviour by any company, whatever they are selling.  For two different suppliers to do the same thing seems to me to raise suspicions as to who they are really serving, their customers or their suppliers.

 

 

Edited June 30, 2016 by JSHarris
made content supposedly clearer

[PeterW]

24 minutes ago, janedevon said:

Now i have the actis rep,offering to come for a site visit!!!

Ask him for the acoustic performance of his product and how it meets the sound attenuation part of the Building Regs for use in internal separating walls....

If you buy 2 pallets of the Frametherm 40 you will also have about 200sqm left to insulate between walls and floors - its probably the best value of them all.

[ProDave]

33 minutes ago, PeterW said:

So I've had a quick look - these are straight off Insulation4Less and I've compared to your current SIG price for Actis

Prod	No	Qty	Unit £	Total £
Boost’R Hybrid	15		£           56.00	£                     840.00
150mm Hybris(3.84m2 p/roll)	40		£           35.25	£               1,410.00
Mulitdhesif Tape	3		£              5.99	£                     17.97
90mm Knauf Frametherm Roll 40 (10.94m2 p/roll)	Pt 24	525 Sqm	£         662.40	£                   1324.80
Celotex 45mm	55	158 Sqm	£           11.85	£                   651.75
Foil Tape	3		£              8.00	£                     24.00
90mm Knauf Frametherm Roll 35 (6.84m2 p/roll)	Pt 24	328 Sqm	£         759.36	£               1,518.72
Celotex 25mm	55	158 Sqm	£              9.35	£                   514.25
Foil Tape	3		£              8.00	£                     24.00

 

All get the 0.16 uValue as far as I can see with 200x48 joists at 600mm centres

 

 

I repeat again, I got 65 rolls of 90mm Frametherm 35 from SIG for £1200 Either SIG are very cheap, or they made a mistake? Those prices are nore than double what I paid.