House purchase - building regs issues - don't know how concerned to be?

[oksleator]

Hello, I have posted about this property before as it has a number of issues. It's a recent (2021) conversion of a stable block into a new home, retaining existing walls and adding an extension. 

 

The owners had a property next door (the main dwelling for which the stables were for, a large grade II listed property) which they have since sold. 

 

We've just had an update from our solicitor and there are inconsistencies with the building regs.

 

1. There is no building regulations completion certificate shown on the Local Authority search for the conversion.

2. The discharge of conditions, is shown as pending on the search.

3. The Final Certificate has the name and address of the neighbouring property on it, not the new dwelling. 

4. My solicitor says regarding the LA search: 

There are no entries of a Building Control nature which would indicate that there has been no electrical work, gas work or new windows and doors installed at the property.

Noting that there should be entries on the search in this regard I have raised this with the sellers’ solicitor and I have also gone back to the search provider to query
this.

 

There is no gas connection at this property so that wasn't a surprise, but it's absolutely choc full of new glazing, bifold doors, etc, and definitely has electricity. 

 

We already know they've cut corners by not putting in a dedicated mains water supply, they've just extended the water from their old property, so they have form for cutting corners. 

 

I have no prior experience of building control or planning, so don't know how to unpick this. What have they done? If this was just the additional of a downstairs toilet or something I wouldn't care, but as it applied to the whole property we're buying, I'm a bit concerned this isn't in order. 

 

The building control certificate was issued as below. 

 

Thanks for your advice!

 

 

[Mr Punter]

You will need the certificates for electrics and glazing.  The building regs certificated does not seem to relate to the stable block conversion but it is hard to say as you have redacted the first paragraph.  Have you seen the initial notice?

[oksleator]

Thanks for the reply. 

 

Sorry I redacted too much, it says '

Conversion of stable block and side extension to form family

dwelling at ADDRESS' where the address is the neighbouring property. 

 

No the only info they provided with regards to the building regs was that certificate. It seemed a bit sparse to me but I have no previous experience of any of this. My conveyancer takes ages and is grumbling about them a lot, but she seems very impartial about the whole situation. 

 

What paperwork would you normally get? 

[JohnMo]

I would instruct the solicitor to ask for a plan and timescale from the sellers to sort the issues. If that timing suits yourself wait, if it doesn't move onto another property. That would also require dedicated water supplies and any other shares utilities, such as toilet waste.

 

Big issue for me is that lots of corners cut where you do see, what about what you don't see?

[Roundtuit]

I cant claim any expertise, but it doesn't look particularly dodgy to me.  Plot addresses are frequently 'land adjacent to ...'  or similar.  Speak to Approved Inspectors Ltd and ask for a copy of the initial notice referred to in para 2, so as you can see the 'official' scope of works.  If electrics/glazing was part of the notice, then I expect certificates were provided to the inspector prior to his sign off.

[oksleator]

Great, thanks both for the advice. 

[jfb]

Looks a little sketchy to me.

For example, what is in place for the water supply? A sub meter on your bit? What’s to stop the main house from cutting the supply to yours without some legal details in place?

[oksleator]

Yes the water is completely sketchy. I've asked for full transparency on where the pipes are and said I wont proceed until I know the full situation and there's a plan in place to rectify it, as I'm pretty sure it crosses neighbours land without any legal rights in place. The searches don't show a mains pipe anywhere near the property so it looks like it's all private pipes but they are just not giving the details so it definitely isn't above board.  

 

The building regs I just don't really understand. Ive searched in the county applications register and there is nothing published related to this property. Do they get deleted pretty quickly? There are a couple of applications for neighbouring properties on there, septic tanks etc. 

 

I am 90% sure we will be walking away from this property but as we've already spent thousands to get this far, I'm doing my due diligence before we make a decision. There are also issues with the title deed, it has a medium risk of subsidence (compressible ground), and I don't trust they've built it correctly at this stage. There are so many issues with their paperwork, they're clearly quite happy to cut corners. 

 

We were so excited when we had an offer accepted three months ago and then that has just been washed away with each wrestled out bit of bad information. If they'd been upfront about all these issues instead of lying on the property forms and feigning ignorance then we could have resolved and hopefully negotiated through them by now. 

 

There's nothing else on the market that works for us so we will just stay put if it falls through. It had land and was in a great location, those things are hard to come by in our crowded corner of england (in our price bracket). 

 

[Roundtuit]

Perhaps they were originally planning to keep the property - annexe or holiday let maybe, so a separate water supply wasn't required.  Not deliberately dodgy, but agreed, it needs sorting now.  Water Authority asset maps can be a bit sketchy I believe.  As you're already invested in this, perhaps start a conversation with your water supplier to try an get an indication of the implications and cost for a new supply.

[Jilly]

Not sure this makes sense: if that is a Building regs sign off for the stable conversion,  the electric, windows etc and other certs would have been provided at the time, for the BC officer, so I can understand if they didn’t keep them as theoretically there is no need. BC should have copies on their files. 
Note the council Planning department is separate from Building Control and they don’t really speak to each other. 
Call them for clarification/ help with searches.
 

The regs are slightly different for conversions compared to new build.

 

Not all planning conditions actually need to be formally discharged , so find out which they are referring to. If they’ve been ignored, take a view as to why. It should all be there on the planning portal for you to see.

 

You can do a lot of this yourself if your solicitor is slow/unsure. It can be very painful.

Ask us for advice on each matter you are unsure of.

 

Spending a lot of money does your head in and makes you irrational when you are emotionally involved.

You clearly want this property really. Location, location, location. 

If it’s the land you want, resolve to find a way through. Nothing is insurmountable. 
Eg you can get an electrical certificate easily enough. 
You could even change windows if you had to, although it won’t come to that. Look at the little kite mark in the corner of the windows, it will tell you what they are.
A structural survey should tell you the important stuff. 

Adjust your offer in view of your findings. Think of it as a game of chess. 
Think laterally and logically and push on…
Oh, and good luck.

 

Edited July 7 by Jilly

[oksleator]

Ah thanks, Jilly, that's useful. I have just gone through the discharge conditions and it looks to me like they addressed them, so I'm not sure why it's still outstanding. Maybe that's a red herring then. 

 

 if that is a Building regs sign off for the stable conversion,  the electric, windows etc and other certs would have been provided at the time, for the BC officer, so I can understand if they didn’t keep them as theoretically there is no need. BC should have copies on their files. 

 

Okay that makes sense. I've gone through and found the wording from my solicitor on this matter. She says: 

 

The Planning register notes two entries:
1. xxx Extension and conversion of existing stable building into a
dwelling
2. yyy Discharge of conditions 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,12,13,14 PENDING
I have received a copy of the planning permission at point 1.
I have raised an enquiry with the sellers’ solicitor regarding point 2 and I await this
document along with evidence from the Local Authority that all the planning
conditions have been discharged.
There are no entries of a Building Control nature which would indicate that there
has been no electrical work, gas work or new windows and doors installed at the
property.

Noting that there should be entries on the search in this regard I have raised this
with the sellers’ solicitor and I have also gone back to the search provider to query
this.

 

So I'm not really sure what they've done, is it just missing paperwork that needs uploading, are the LA's files incomplete, or have they done something dodgy? I hope we will find out pretty soon as getting information out of them is like blood from a stone. 

 

If they take much longer to answer all these things then we will lose our buyer and the chain will collapse, so you'd think they'd be scrambling around to resolve their messy paperwork. 

 

 

[ADLIan]

There should be a new EPC as part of the Building Reg sign off. Search the epc register for the address.

[Jilly]

25 minutes ago, ADLIan said:

There should be a new EPC as part of the Building Reg sign off. Search the epc register for the address.

It’s not needed for a conversion (unless things have changed recently) but that wouldn’t apply to this case.

Edited July 7 by Jilly

[Jilly]

You could look for the Building Control Certificate number, not sure if it is there or you’ve removed it. It might have BN or FP in the code.

Then ring the relevant Building Control and ask them if they have copies.

One other thing which might be causing confusion is if they used a private building control company. Many of them went bust, post Grenfell, which could account for missing paperwork. Many people were left in the lurch mid build, around that time.

 

I don’t think this sounds dodgy, it just looks like they did the minimum to jump through hoops and no more and perhaps kept their head down over things that weren’t noticed.

 

Can you keep a cost tally of things that need regularising, to deduct from your final offer?
 

 

[Kelvin]

21 hours ago, jfb said:

Looks a little sketchy to me.

For example, what is in place for the water supply? A sub meter on your bit? What’s to stop the main house from cutting the supply to yours without some legal details in place?

I know someone where exactly this happened to them (by her sister) They had to install a borehole at enormous cost. 

[Jilly]

14 minutes ago, Kelvin said:

I know someone where exactly this happened to them (by her sister) They had to install a borehole at enormous cost. 

So onto the list for the revised offer. 

[oksleator]

They were originally planning on using it as a holiday let, so yes I think that is the problem. They've basically jumped through the minimum hoops they could to get it through without considering the requirements for a sale. 

 

I tried to get some figures from severn water for putting in access to mains but it has to come from them. I think there are access rights across the field just not across the neighbouring property, so it might be a case of getting them to sign a wayleave agreement, but this would be up to them to sort out. Kelvin how much was enormous cost? Are we talking tens of thousands (or more?!). 

 

The house has a LOT of windows and three sets of bifold doors so I would like assurance those are signed off as they would be $$$ to replace. I'm just trying to cover myself in case we need to sell the place ourselves in the near future, as you never know what's around the corner. 

 

There is an EPC, I had to get them to do a new one as it was in the address of the neighbouring property and my mortgage lender wouldn't accept it, but that looks fine. 

 

The building control was a private company - 'Approved Inspectors" Ltd. The website is running and it's still going strong. No BN or FP number on the document unfortunately. I've searched the county council register as well and no evidence of it, but there are other ones by the same company for the neighbours on there. 

 

Another problem is they've screwed up the access rights - there is no legal way through from the nearest public highway. So they definitely have some legal stuff to work through. No idea how long that's going to take them but I doubt it will be quick. 

 

Our buyers are patient and understanding but even they have limits, so I'm not feeling particularly optimistic about all this. 

 

Thanks everyone for the advice, really appreciate it. 

[Mr Punter]

If you propose to have a mortgage on this purchase, your solicitor will often act jointly for your lender which can be helpful as if it does not comply for lending purposes it is a no-go.

[Kelvin]

She was our neighbour. There is no mains supply here so it was a borehole. Total cost was circa £20k 8 years ago. 

[oksleator]

Yes, there is a lender. We've had to report a couple of things to them already, one resolved, one still outstanding. It is a good sanity check!