Double or triple glazing options, what is the difference?

[JohnnyB]

I would like to know if I will feel the difference inside the house with well fitted double glazed windows and doors over triple glazed?  If we are sitting beside a window is there really much difference if everything else is well insulated and sealed? Will it feel cold beside the window on a cold day like it did in our last developer built 2008 built house with UPVC double glazing?

 

We are building a traditional lookng house and my wife and I can't agree on the windows. We thought this was sorted a long time ago but when it comes to actually ordering things and checking what we like we found we really don't agree.  We had been looking at Greenbuild store, now 21 degrees, for windows and doors but have decided we don't like the details on their windows.

The look of the windows is very important to us but the efficience of the windows is much more important to me than the look but my wife is the other way round.

Dale Joinery is the prefered look but they don't do triple glazing.  Their windows must meet build regs for sign off. 

Triple glazed UPVC and Aluminum frames we have looked at from local companies vary quite a bit in their specified U values, some of those aren't much better than the 1.4 building regs, 1.0 seems good on a lot of the options we have looked at locally even with triple glazing.

 

Any of the window exparts able to offere advice on how warm the windows feel and if a well made wooden window with double glazing and well fitted would feel cold sitting beside it?

 

This is a decision we will need to make very soon as we will need some of our windows in 2-3 months time.

[ProDave]

Very pleased with our Rationel triple glazed windows, definitely not cold so sit next to, but they are probably a bit modern looking compared to the look you are wanting.

[JohnMo]

Passivhaus have the criteria for triple glazed, but not for heat loss, but mostly for comfort factor. It's the internal skin of the glazing temperature which is important, the closer it is too room temperature the lower the room temperature can be and still feel comfortable. We have a big bay window fully triple glazed and at -9 outside I can sit right next to the window in my tee shirt.

 

We do have a couple of wooden framed double glazed doors, but these are krypton filled units, which reduces the U value very well. They have a U_w of 1.0. So midway between decent double glazed and triple glazed. So you can have the windows you want, good comfort and reduced heat loss. Krypton come with a price hike, but you get what you pay for.

[JohnnyB]

18 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

We do have a couple of wooden framed double glazed doors, but these are krypton filled units, which reduces the U value very well.

Thanks, that's the kind of experience I was hoping to find. Can you feel the difference between your double and triple glazing if you were sitting beside them, and is it much of a difference?

 

I realise it's the comfort level that 3G helps with, and why I would like to have it fitted. A hate sitting beside a cold window, but at the end of the day the wife and I have to agree on something so we can order windows.

[JohnnyB]

46 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Very pleased with our Rationel triple glazed windows, definitely not cold so sit next to, but they are probably a bit modern looking compared to the look you are wanting.

Yes, that's that issue we have, they don't suit the look we are trying to achieve.

[JohnMo]

17 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

Can you feel the difference between your double and triple glazing if you were sitting beside them, and is it much of a difference

It's about 10 degs here at the moment and back of the hand feels slightly cooler on the krypton double glazed compared to triple. But not much in it.

[Iceverge]

Good air sealing is far more important than U-Value in my opinion. 

 

A neighbours new build, with MVHR and good airtighness . Excellent U values of 0.1-0.16W/m2K. 

 

However they opted for new sliding sash windows with brush seals. The house was drafty and sitting in the kitchen with the heating on in winter you would occasionally get a little shiver. 

 

Whatever you pick, make sure you have good compression seals, joined properly at the corners (not just loosely butt jointed). Preferably 3 layers of sealing and multiple locking points to ensure they squeeze tightly to all sides. 

 

Edited June 9 by Iceverge

[JohnMo]

10 minutes ago, Iceverge said:

Whatever you pick, make sure you have good compression seals, joined properly at the corners (not just loosely butt jointed). Preferably 3 layers of sealing and multiple locking points to ensure they squeeze tightly to all sides. 

Another thing I found useful this winter as an adjustable door catch. The door sealed well when locked, but was drafty when not. A quick adjust of the catch airtight again. Loosen the two silver screws and the stepped piece can be moved in or out. Adjusting the door to seal compression.

 

[nod]

1 hour ago, Iceverge said:

Good air sealing is far more important than U-Value in my opinion. 

 

A neighbours new build, with MVHR and good airtighness . Excellent U values of 0.1-0.16W/m2K. 

 

However they opted for new sliding sash windows with brush seals. The house was drafty and sitting in the kitchen with the heating on in winter you would occasionally get a little shiver. 

 

Whatever you pick, make sure you have good compression seals, joined properly at the corners (not just loosely butt jointed). Preferably 3 layers of sealing and multiple locking points to ensure they squeeze tightly to all sides. 

 

Plus 1

[MikeGrahamT21]

Have you looked at Munster Joinery?

 

Triple glazing is become far more common these days, but unfortunately manufacturers are using it to their own advantage so they can sell poorly performing frames and still be inside the regulations.

 

Also pay attention to the gap size between the panes, they can be too small and not give any benefit, and also too large which allows convection to occur. 
 

but to answer your question, a good double vs a good triple, yes you will undoubtedly notice the difference, I know I certainly do. But the problem comes as above if you compare a good double vs a poor triple, the double would likely be the best option 

[G and J]

We’ve not started investigating yet but I foresee a fun time trying to sort the patio doors at the back of our great hall (it isn’t, it’s a combined lounge/diner/kitchen/conservatory type room with a choice of places to sit, but it will do as a name).

 

The hole for them is just under 12’ wide, and the plan is to have two sliding panes and two fixed panes, to give a nearly 6’ wide opening.  That means looking through both the fixed and the sliding panels on each side when open.  
 

If triple glazed that would mean 6 layers of glass.   Will I notice the difference between that and the kryptonite filled double glazed version?

[JohnMo]

5 minutes ago, G and J said:

triple glazed that would mean 6 layers of glass.   Will I notice the difference between that and the kryptonite filled double glazed version?

We have triple (argon) and double (krypton) in the same frame next to each other you can't see the difference.

Other option - French doors and fixed either side? 

[G and J]

51 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

We have triple (argon) and double (krypton) in the same frame next to each other you can't see the difference.

Other option - French doors and fixed either side? 

We’ve the dreaded folding sliding doors where we are now.  They’ve done us proud but they’ve taught us that in a restrictive space sliding doors help.  So we are going for patio doors (as I call ‘em, where one pane slides over the other fixed pane to open) as we are trying to get the greatest feeling of space we can out of the limited width of plot that we have.   

[Iceverge]

There is acoustic benefits to triple glazing too. Not to be overlooked. 

[G and J]

2 minutes ago, Iceverge said:

There is acoustic benefits to triple glazing too. Not to be overlooked. 

Noted.  

[JohnnyB]

On 09/06/2024 at 13:17, MikeGrahamT21 said:

Have you looked at Munster Joinery?

Have you used them?  I hadn't seen them before. Do they sell in England, looks like they are based in Ireland?

Looking at their website it doesn't look like the type of thing we would go for and I would expect hardwood windows to be expensive. I can make contact and see what they offer.

Edited June 11 by JohnnyB

[MikeGrahamT21]

20 hours ago, JohnnyB said:

Have you used them?  I hadn't seen them before. Do they sell in England, looks like they are based in Ireland?

Looking at their website it doesn't look like the type of thing we would go for and I would expect hardwood windows to be expensive. I can make contact and see what they offer.

I haven’t, but I know they are top end passivhaus certified, saw them in passive house plus magazine. They certainly used to sell in england

 

they do both PVC and Ali clad timber from memory

Edited June 12 by MikeGrahamT21

[FarmerN]

On 09/06/2024 at 14:43, Iceverge said:

There is acoustic benefits to triple glazing too. Not to be overlooked. 

We have just moved into our new build ,with Rationel triple glazed windows.

Pleased so far.

We moved from an old farm house with single glazing where you could hear the dawn chorus, now deathly silence when I get up in the morning. My wife definitely does not like the silence.

In a rural location there is a down side to the acoustic benefits.

The mistake we made fitting the windows was with plastering the reveals, the plaster was not thick enough, leaving airtight tape showing on the window frames. Tried removing surplus tape, impossible, ended up with wood beading round reveals on to the  frame to cover the exposed tape on the frames.

 

 

[G and J]

2 minutes ago, FarmerN said:

We have just moved into our new build ,with Rationel triple glazed windows.

Pleased so far.

We moved from an old farm house with single glazing where you could hear the dawn chorus, now deathly silence when I get up in the morning. My wife definitely does not like the silence.

 

In a rural location there is a down side to the acoustic benefits.

 

The mistake we made fitting the windows was with plastering the reveals, the plaster was not thick enough, leaving airtight tape showing on the window frames. Tried removing surplus tape, impossible, ended up with wood beading round reveals on to the  frame to cover the exposed tape on the frames.

 

 

One of the things I like about buildhub is that I learn from others mishaps, so I’m grateful to you for sharing as I can easily imagine me doing that. 
 

So I’ll sleep soundly in the knowledge that I’ll make other, perhaps worse mistakes.  😕

[Kelvin]

We live rurally as well. I love the quiet stillness inside the house. 

[Kelvin]

8 minutes ago, G and J said:

One of the things I like about buildhub is that I learn from others mishaps, so I’m grateful to you for sharing as I can easily imagine me doing that. 
 

So I’ll sleep soundly in the knowledge that I’ll make other, perhaps worse mistakes.  😕

Depends on the tape you use I expect. Pro Clima do a tape (other tapes are available) designed for sealing windows and junctions called Profil which is split into 12mm and 48mm. Plasterboard and a skim coat ought to cover the 12mm. I do have a few places where you can just see the edge of it but a thin bead of caulk has covered it up. 
 

You’ll make loads of mistakes but you’ll also become adept at thinking your way around them. 

Edited June 12 by Kelvin

[JohnMo]

1 hour ago, FarmerN said:

where you could hear the dawn chorus, now deathly silence

We have a big wall fully glazed its triple glazed, it blocks out most noise, but strangely you can hear birds.

[JohnnyB]

I don't want to block out the outside.  We have moved to the countryside and love the sound of the wildlife around.  Living in a static caravan on site helps us to hear what is going on around us!

[JohnMo]

7 hours ago, JohnnyB said:

I don't want to block out the outside.  We have moved to the countryside and love the sound of the wildlife around.  Living in a static caravan on site helps us to hear what is going on around us!

Open the windows when it's not Baltic. We have a Loch just across the road, we can here the ducks quack away.  Small triple glazed may be silent big ones are not. But I can sit right next to window when it's -9 and watch the world go by, may not be so comfortable with double glazing.