Floor plan feedback - London 30s semi

[hdp]

Hi everyone. I'm looking for some feedback on some designs my wife and I have come up with for a proposed two storey extension to our north London 30s semi. First thing to say is if I lived anywhere else in the country I would just move (or would have bought something bigger in the first place) but with London prices I think extending a maxing the size of property makes financial sense given we really don't want to move from the area. A next step house detached house with decent garden and as good location is at least double price of our current house.

 

Our house already has a loft conversion, which we completed when we firstbmoved in 7 years ago. Up there we have a large master bedroom and ensuite. I also created a garden study by converting the back two thirds of my detached garage. I retained the front third as a compact garage storage.

Our plans are to knock down the old 70s 3m rear extension and build a new 6m ground floor extension, where we'll add a kitchen diner. We'll create a laundry room in the middle of the house and pantry cupboard. On the first floor we were considering extending 3m by 3m (max we'd be allowed - plenty on street have done it). Current thinking is we move the bathroom to what is the box bedroom and create a double bedroom and shower room from the current bathroom and new space. Reason for this is we have 2 young girls and each will need a good sized bedroom - on the assumption we're in the house for the next 10 years if we do this work. Both my wife and my parents are not local (one set abroad) but visit regularly along with other family so we need retain double bedroom for guests.

 

Thanks in advance for feedback, ideas and advice.

 

Current 1st floor

 

Current ground floor

 

Proposed ground floor

 

Proposed 1st floor

Edited April 23 by hdp

[hdp]

I'll throw in an alternative design which is more structural work but builder tells me isn't actually making a lot more expensive in the grand scheme of things.

[Adsibob]

@hdp i would consider speaking to a planning consultant first before getting all excited about floor plans. I too live in North London and even though I’m not in a conservation zone, we really struggled to get a rear two storey extension approved. Originally we submitted plans for three storeys, including loft conversion. This was deemed over development and not allowed, even though both of our neighbours on either side had done bigger loft conversions, our ground floor extension was only 4m deep and our first floor extension only 2.4m deep only half the width of our house.

 

 Eventually we got help from a planning consultant who advised that if we presented a planning application for just the ground and first floors, and ditched the loft (temporarily) we were more likely to get that approved and could subsequently add a loft conversion under permitted development as long as it was built as a separate structure to the first floor extension, ie entirely separate. 
 

in your case, you could not do what we did because your loft is already converted. Seems unfair and it is, but that is the stupid planning system.
 

So I would find out what is actually possible before thinking about internal layout too much.

[hdp]

Thanks for the reply and advice. Much appreciated. About 10 houuses on my street have completed this exact extension we're proposing, including my direct neighbour and house next to them. So I'm not too concerned about that. Spoken to a few architects and design and build teams and all have said the same thing to us. First we submit a prior approval application under Permitted development and neighbour consultation for the 6m extension. One approved then we file for planning on first floor on a separate application. 

[torre]

I prefer your alternative, it has more of an open plan feel and adds a downstairs toilet which I'd expect in a property that size.

 

Maybe you can tweak the design, turn the toilet around so the door feels like it opens less into the space and more into the end of the hall (could it knock through into that closet?). Maybe look at squeezing the pantry into the now quite large laundry too.

 

Guess you've roof windows somewhere?

[hdp]

Thanks. The "closet" is actually a small toilet currently so both have a downstairs toilet but alternative design allows for a larger one and I'd use the old space for shoes coats etc.

Regarding pantry I was thinking it could also fit on the left hand side of the open plan, next to the toilet.

[ProDave]

15 hours ago, hdp said:

I'll throw in an alternative design which is more structural work but builder tells me isn't actually making a lot more expensive in the grand scheme of things.

I like the open plan feel of that but think the rooms are disproportionately sized.

 

I think the living room at the front will fill tiny compared to the huge open space at the back.

 

Make the living room encompass what is currently laundry, and shrink the large open plan room a little to fit the laundry in that space somewhere.

[Adsibob]

16 hours ago, hdp said:

Thanks for the reply and advice. Much appreciated. About 10 houuses on my street have completed this exact extension we're proposing, including my direct neighbour and house next to them. So I'm not too concerned about that. Spoken to a few architects and design and build teams and all have said the same thing to us. First we submit a prior approval application under Permitted development and neighbour consultation for the 6m extension. One approved then we file for planning on first floor on a separate application. 

Ok, I hope you are right, and I hope you don’t live in Barnet or Enfield. 

[hdp]

I live in Enfield

[Bozza]

1.  Don’t put a toilet off the the new open plan area.  Very awkward.   Use the middle of the house eg what is currently the back of the house for the loo, utility etc.

 

2.  Think about natural light in the middle of the house, or lack of it.  Rooms that don’t need natural light are the loo & utility & storage & pantry.
 

so top to bottom do decent sized lounge, then utility etc, then your open plan kitchen dining etc.     
 

[Adsibob]

11 hours ago, Bozza said:

1.  Don’t put a toilet off the the new open plan area.  Very awkward.      
 

Plus 1, but replace "Awkward" with "smelly". You're just sitting down at the breakfast bar to drink your espresso and instead of a nice aroma of coffee... you get an aroma of something else. Same issue when you are at the dining table.

 

Even with MVHR, toilets should only ever be off hallways (unless an ensuite to a bedroom - but even then the smell is not ideal).

[Iceverge]

Where's North on your plan?

 

Don't forget you can change your house but you can't change the path of the sun.

[ProDave]

2 hours ago, Adsibob said:

(unless an ensuite to a bedroom - but even then the smell is not ideal).

Your partner should have consideration not to use the en-suite for smelly jobs.  Find a more remote toilet for that.

[hdp]

The rear of the house is north facing, so currently quite dark, but with the large skylights it will be very light (as my next door neighbour's is). The building firm I last spoke say it would be no problem putting a gable roof on the extension (even with the first floor extension) bit like these images.

 

Regarding the toilet I sketched this layout quickly, so no issues with just checking the toilet where it is off the hallway but making slightly larger.

 

No comments on my first floor layout?

Edited April 26 by hdp

[ProDave]

10 hours ago, hdp said:

No comments on my first floor layout?

By making the first floor extension so small you introduce the complication of some probably substantial beams to support 2 of the walls of the extension and obviously that part of the downstairs cannot have the open vaulted ceiling.

[hdp]

It would probably be crowded roof rather than vaulted I provided a photo of. Unfortunately I wouldn't be able to do more on first floor. Planning would definitely reject more than that.

 

I've been playing with design further and thinking how the variety in the ceiling creates natural zones to the open plan.

 

Edited April 27 by hdp