Griffithsg83 Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 Hello, I am currently undergoing a renovation where I am considering installing the Omnie Lowboard 2 insulate system. Does anyone have any experience using this system without insulation in the sub floor? I am concerned that even with this system, the heat will be lost to the floor. Alternatively, I am considering insulating the floor instead with Kingspan Optim-R 40mm. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 Read some of the other UFH threads. Neither is adequate insulation for UFH, irrespective of what the company selling these products claim. 40mm insulation is also inadequate. Insulated floor with 40mm insulation, ok if you stick with radiators. But more would be better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 Ditto to the above. You need a LOT of insulation under UFH. There simply is not any easy retro fit on top system that will give good results. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 1 hour ago, Griffithsg83 said: Omnie Lowboard 2 That's awful. 22mm chipboard with grooves cut out of it to reduce the tiny amount of insulation down to negligible. This would only suitable for an upstairs room, with lots of heat leaking down to the ground floor. @Griffithsg83 I'd be interested to know how you came across this and if some contractor is promoting it. Tel us more about the circumstances and expert people here will advise. the house, the floor construction. Etc. 1 hour ago, Griffithsg83 said: the heat will be lost to the floor. You are right of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 +1 to the above, I have 200mm insulation under my UFH 🤷♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbeard Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 (edited) 6 hours ago, Griffithsg83 said: Alternatively, I am considering insulating the floor instead with Kingspan Optim-R 40mm. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I have not llooked at the price for vacuum panels (Optim-R) for a long time, and I had to remind myself re the thermal conductivity too. Kingspan say: ''OPTIM-R is an optimum performance rigid vacuum insulation panel (VIP) with a declared thermal conductivity of just 0.007 W/mK,'' If you really mean 40mm of VIP (not a composite board made of, say floorboard with VIP attached) then that would give you an R value of 5.7m2K/W, good enough for a U value of 0.175W/m2K even without adding in the 'base case' R value. That's not too shoddy! Compares with an R value of 1.81m2K/W for PIR at 40mm (U = 0.55W/m2K). IIRC re the price, though, you may need a mortgage - and (in ignorance of the specifics) I imagine you'd need some sort of (less insulative - wooden?) frame to sit them in. They also cannot be fixed through, or they become NIPs instead of VIPs. Edited March 24 by Redbeard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 20 minutes ago, Redbeard said: you may need a mortgage And make sure someone doesn't put a hole in it. Would you trust a contractor - I wouldn't. You would need to protect with plenty of concrete, if it can take the weight? Just to make sure someone didn't come along later with the nail gun and fill it with holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffithsg83 Posted March 24 Author Share Posted March 24 Thank you all for your responses. The house was originally a 1960’s chalet bungalow which has been renovated to a full two storey house (4 bedrooms). Taking up the original floor wasn’t an option sadly, hence the need to add some sort of insulation. I have explored various UFH systems which involved using a layer of SuperFoil as a base layer. To me this wouldn’t do the job. The house will be insulated fully on existing ground floor walls (internally) using kingspan kooltherm k118 plaster board insulation. The upstairs will be insulated with kooltherm 103 I think. I have seen installation videos for the Optim-R where the boards are placed directly to the concrete floor with foam adhesive and then covered using composite board (also with adhesive). I am building undergoing the renovation with my builder (father) so trust for installation wouldn’t be an issue. The Omnie insulation panels have been suggested by a number of companies as a viable option. They say the board design reflects the heat effectively on non insulated sub floors? I have had little joy searching other threads to find any examples of the Omnie insulated version having been used and how effective it actually is in the real world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 2 minutes ago, Griffithsg83 said: various UFH systems Perhaps this isn't best for you. Heat loss will not be so extreme through the flooring you heat the room rather than the floor. 5 minutes ago, Griffithsg83 said: using a layer of SuperFoil as a base layer. To me this wouldn’t do the job Correct. It would be totally useless sanwiched between the floor and another layer Omnia is very expensive. Ruling out lifting the floor for now, i would insulate everwhere else. Is ashp the right solution? Possibly not. What has persuaded you so far? Businesses promoting it I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Griffithsg83 said: They say the board design reflects the heat effectively on non insulated sub floors... have had little joy searching other threads to find any examples of the Omnie insulated version having been used and how effective it actually is in the real world. I have a similar system in my garden room on 125mm centres, with a total 200mm insulation in the floor, similar amount in room and 140mm of insulation in the walls. Even at 40 deg flow temp and about 5 degs outside I could not get the room above 16. Dumped the UFH and went fan coil, everything fine. Just keep your money in your pocket. Omnie and many other systems are all the same, if they say they aren't they are playing silly games. Edited March 24 by JohnMo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 3 hours ago, Griffithsg83 said: They say the board design reflects the heat effectively on non insulated sub floors It doesn't. Insulation works by being a barrier to energy transfer. In simple terms, pir or mineral wool keeps air in pockets, forming a resistance. Reflective foils only work if they have an airspace to bounce energy back into. If sandwiched they don't do that. It's great that you are seeing through the nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceverge Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 22 hours ago, Griffithsg83 said: Inflation adjustes 40mm of opium-r would be close to £200/M2. For context you would buy 1.6m of PIR for that. Bin the idea of UFH unless you want to dig out the floor I say. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now