Hot rolled steel building.

[Jenki]

Had anybody had a steel building in my case 47 ft x 30 ft x 14 ft built and have the erection costs to hand? 

It will be 4 portal frames, timber perlins and metal clad.

I've got package costs and kit costs and it seems like most things the sum of the parts have a big profit margin attached. So I'm looking to guage just erection costs if anyone has some?

[saveasteading]

27 minutes ago, Jenki said:

erection costs to hand? 

Erection only?

I'd say that will take 4 skilled men :

day 1. Offload and prep.

2 erect primary steel and a few rails

3 to 5 remaining rails.

6 sundries and clear up.

7 contingency

 

so 7 x 4 x £250 average?

crane or FL 2 days

mewp 7 days

 

10% sundries

30% markup if a working owner. Otherwise 50%

 

£13k. To £15k

 

assumes ready availability of the skills,  if not, add accordingly.

and a hard running surface. Inside and perimeter. If not, forget the above.

assumes all parts correct, foundation bolts correct,  and no drillling.

 

would i do it for that? No. Too many things go wrong with other peoples frames on other peoples sites.

 

 

[markc]

+1 on the above.

done far too many small portals as fill in jobs and lost money on every one …. And that was during 90’s when steel erectors walked over portals, climbed columns and monkeyed across purlins.

[saveasteading]

38 minutes ago, markc said:

when steel erectors walked over portals

Me. Please don't do that.

Erector. If I was going to fall off, I would have died years ago.

Me to HSE: I want to use fall nets.

HSE:  They are a continental idea and we don't allow them. The erectors must shuffle along and hook themselves* to the structure.

 

Now? At least the rules are clear, albeit costly.

 

* that's a slow (15 mins?) way to die of blood blockage, hanging in a harness, unless there is a mewp to get you down.

[saveasteading]

6 hours ago, saveasteading said:

unless there is a mewp

May I digress or will I be in trouble with the digression police?

Has anybody bought an old mewp for their project, or looked into it?

They must be disposed of at some age and condition but probably when they are becoming unreliable or caked in paint.

The convenience could be very valuable. But the risk of hydraulics problems?

[Russell griffiths]

49 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

May I digress or will I be in trouble with the digression police?

Has anybody bought an old mewp for their project, or looked into it?

They must be disposed of at some age and condition but probably when they are becoming unreliable or caked in paint.

The convenience could be very valuable. But the risk of hydraulics problems?

I had a scissor lift for a year when I was putting up the shell, whizzing about indoors with it was excellent. 
I only got rid of it when the ufh went in. 
sold it for what I paid for it £2500. 

[markc]

I’ve been buying and selling cherry pickers, especially spiders for over 25 years. 

[saveasteading]

5 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

sold it for what I paid for it £2500. 

sourced where? where should I be looking or enquiring? looking for 6m platform

[Alan Ambrose]

I’m also interested in one as I’ll have vaulted ceilings. Is there a floor loading problem with these though? I’m sure they work on a concrete floor slab, but would they be too heavy for some floor types?

[Russell griffiths]

7 hours ago, saveasteading said:

sourced where? where should I be looking or enquiring? looking for 6m platform

Facebook 

[Russell griffiths]

32 minutes ago, Alan Ambrose said:

I’m also interested in one as I’ll have vaulted ceilings. Is there a floor loading problem with these though? I’m sure they work on a concrete floor slab, but would they be too heavy for some floor types?

I drove mine around on the block n beam for a year, I think it weighed about 1200kg. 

[saveasteading]

1 hour ago, Alan Ambrose said:

Is there a floor loading problem with these though? 

It needs serious checking. I used a pair of boom ones on a big sports hall floor of planks, before the structural screed. They  calculated as comfortably  OK when standing symmetrically but not with the boom out to one corner and fully extended. The steel erectors understood and used them appropriately.

 

On beam and block similarly but there's a risk of blocks cracking.

[Alan Ambrose]

I’m seeing typical beam & block as, say, 300kg/m^2 allowed loading and scissor lifts at say 1,000.

e.g. https://www.hybridlifts.com/ansi/GoHyer/2021/What-is-Floor-Load-and-how-do-Scissor-Lifts-Stack-Up.htm

 

An example spider is 1,500kg over say 6m^2 i.e. 250 kg/m^2

 

e.g. https://www.siteheight.com/spider-lift-hire-13-80

 

So, not that far off the designed floor loading?

 

@markc any thoughts?

Edited March 8 by Alan Ambrose

[saveasteading]

Yes it is a serious matter. The floor is expected to take domestic loading, spread out. A wheel can be a very direct point load, on a block or 2, or directly on a beam. Thus not to be dabbled with.

Wheel size, or jacks, will matter too. I would want jacks to be onto a timber bearer across the beams. 

I only considered rough terrain mewps becsuse of the big wheels and to cross over bumps gently.

Scissor lifts will spread load onto 4 wheels. Booms can have 3/4 of the load on one wheel, or jack.

 

Also. The design load for a precast floor normally assumes the screed is laid. The screed adds considerably to the strength.

Precast planks 150 thick will bounce simply with jumping up and down on them. With 70mm on top, they don't. 

[Hughgo12]

.

Edited March 8 by Hughgo12
.

[Russell griffiths]

Just looked up the one I had

genie 150. 
working height 6m 

weight 1000kg. 
straight up n down lift no slew. 

Edited March 8 by Russell griffiths

[saveasteading]

24 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

straight up n down lift no slew. 

Very small wheels for on a hard slab only. Was that ever frustrating?

The sliding platform handy though.

[Russell griffiths]

4 hours ago, saveasteading said:

Very small wheels for on a hard slab only. Was that ever frustrating?

The sliding platform handy though.

Couple of sheets of plywood and I could drive it around the outside of the house. 
inside it rumbled around nicely on the block n beam. 
I even lifted a couple of 80kg windows up into place 4m up in the air with it. The windows in this pic  

Edited March 8 by Russell griffiths

[Jenki]

To get back on topic😁.

I didn't have 16k to erect, so erected in an more agricultural way. (Ropes, pulleys, harness and caribeners🫣). 

Wind was the only issue that stopped progress of sheeting on several occasions. Just finishing the electrics, and still have a hard standing to concrete at the front.

Apart from some help erecting the rafters, and some help on the last few roof sheets and gutters all this was done by Mandy and I.

Not going to blog this due to the methods employed, however, at no point do I think what we were doing was dangerous.

Time consuming yes, tedious yes, but primarily safe.

For those interested in costs / figures.

218 tonnes of type 1 and type 2 hardcore.

32 cube of concrete.

Project cost so far £27k with about 8 cube more concrete needed.

 

 

[saveasteading]

1 hour ago, Jenki said:

To get back on topic😁

I said 28 man days for skilled erectors, without cladding. Ie 4 x 7 days.

You?

[Jenki]

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

I said 28 man days for skilled erectors, without cladding. Ie 4 x 7 days.

You?

@saveasteading I haven't diarised the times, but we poured the pads end of June, and started the frame July 1st.  

The frame was complete, purlins and 3 bays of concrete plus the plinth at the rear were complete by the end of July (we did the concrete on consecutive days, 1 bay at a time).

I had to work away for a week in July, plus the local agricultural show needed setting up and stripping down plus  the cabins were non stop June/July/ Aug, so mostly half days when both of us were available, plus any noisy activity was only done when our customers left so this was quite restrictive, when we had a clear window the wind would have other ideas.

1st side of cladding started 31^st July

We finished cladding, doors, trims and roof by the end of August. 

Just some lights and downpipes to finish.  plus setting up my workshop, sheep pens - Oh forgot we had to cut, turn and square bail 8 acres of Hay as well.  that's all sat in the field waiting for some dry weather to bring it into the barn.

 

 

[saveasteading]

Are the base plates sitting on the concrete pads, or did you shim them?

 

That timber template for bolt positioning and casting in solid  is my preferred method on bigger buildings, but I would probably have used threaded rod and epoxy on yours.

 

Edited September 5 by saveasteading

[Jenki]

3 hours ago, saveasteading said:

Are the base plates sitting on the concrete pads, or did you shim them?

 

That timber template for bolt positioning and casting in solid  is my preferred method on bigger buildings, but I would probably have used threaded rod and epoxy on yours.

 

The pads are 1mx1mx 300mm min deep sat on rock, I framed the boxes and filled around with stone to get my level base. I set the top of the forms all level to the bottom of the slab,  then just filled the boxes 200mm below that level and inserted the bolts.  The bolts and cones came part of the kit.

I didn't fancy resin due to the unpredictable wind.

The legs were 200mm longer.so I shimmed if needed to get plumb, then when I poured the rear external slab, I filled the boxes at the same time. So the plates are sandwiched in a min of 1/2 cube.

 

As a note, The frame came from South Wales, way cheaper than I could get anywhere up here. I think the croft grant scheme inflates the local prices.