incorrect scale within submission of .pdf drawing to Planning

[Post and beam]

I am lost and need some guidance if possible guys.   I have taken a .pdf drawing that was previously accepted at the full planning application stage and tried to modify it to use to satisfy the discharge of two conditions. Not having the correct software or knowledge i converted the .pdf to .jpg  imported it into paint and amended it. (As 2 slighly different drawings.)

I then re converted it back into .pdf and submitted it.  The scale bar on the drawings matches measurements within the drawing.

But as you can read below a reply from the planning dude can see an issue.

 

On newly submitted drawings ’22-036-101-LEVELS REV A’ and ’22-036-101-SS REV A’, your scale bar has proved to be inaccurate. Instead of measuring to 9m at the stated scale, it measures to 3.1m. Please can the drawing be revised, so that it scales correctly, and resubmitted at your earliest convenience.

 

If anyone understands the intricacies of .pdf scale I offer a bottle of very good Red wine to anyone that can successfully get me over this hurdle.

[MikeSharp01]

Go Back to the JPEG in 3D paint and scale the your scale bar up by 2.9 times drag the selection tightly round the scale bar. Observe the width pixels in the top right of the 2D selection. Multiply that figure by 2.9 and then stretch the box until it reads the calculated value - Only stretch in X. Then the scale bar should measure 9m near enough. They don't want scales a long way out because if they were you might be building a sky scraper or a dolls house in your back garden and they signed it off!!!!!

[Temp]

If you simply converted the whole drawing (including scale bar) from .pdf to jpeg and then back again any unwanted scaling should affect both the building and the scale bar equally. 

 

To get such a large discrepancy either it was always wrong or you magnified the building and scale bar differently?

 

Sometimes you get can get this issue if you accidentally scale x and y differently. For example by doing "fit to page" without "preserve aspect ratio set" when printing? Can happen when printing on different size paper or landscape Vs portrait.

 

 

[Alan Ambrose]

There’s a utility for measuring dimensions off pdfs. Can’t remember its name but I believe LPAs use it to take rough measurements off pdf drawings. Using it, you could double check a couple of key dimensions.

[George]

The conversion to jpg will have mucked up the scaling but so long as you printed back to the same PDF page size it should have been OK. I suspect what you have done is print it back to a different page size, although the scale bar still should have worked the absolute measurements would have been off.... but really, the planners are being finickity.

 

If you drop me a message I can run it through AutoCAD from the original PDF and reprint. 

 

[Post and beam]

4 hours ago, Temp said:

If you simply converted the whole drawing (including scale bar) from .pdf to jpeg and then back again any unwanted scaling should affect both the building and the scale bar equally. 

Thats what i did, import-edit-export.

 

The scale bar in the drawing measures correctly against dimensions on the ground (in the drawing of course). I use the width of the drive way as my test.

There is also a '1:200 @ A1' annotation on the drawing.

 

I am very reluctant to pay the original planning advisors £500 to submit this very basic info on my behalf. I might have to.

 

[Post and beam]

2 minutes ago, George said:

If you drop me a message I can run it through AutoCAD from the original PDF and reprint. 

 Hi George, i have a very kind offer via PM to do the very same thing but thank you. I do suspect that the scenario that you propose is exactly what i did. But as i have made 2 failed attempts to submit already i am clearly not the person to find the error and correct it. 

[Post and beam]

5 minutes ago, George said:

the planners are being finickity.

They certainly are. 

If they took a ruler to their PC  screen and measured any dimension against the scale bar it is correct.

I used as the template a  previously accepted drawing from the original planning application so they have actually already had the information i am trying to give them.

Discharge of conditions looks for all the world to me like an excuse to extract another £145 from me. Which they have duly done.

[Alan Ambrose]

There's some instructions for checking dimensions here:

 

https://jobs.north-norfolk.gov.uk/media/2627/measuring-pdf-plans.pdf

 

That's probably the technique they're using. Presumably your edited doc looks fairly similar sizing to the original? You have the page size set the same as the original? (File / Properties / Page Size) 

Edited February 6 by Alan Ambrose

[Post and beam]

Update:

If i now open my document in Adobe acrobat it opens at letter size 8.5" x 11" i think. So if i go to menu-print-page setup and change it to A1 and then do the Measure object-measuring tool option i can set the scale to a figure that gives me exactly what i want.

None of the above is preserved after saving the file, as, when i next open the file it is all incorrect again.

Apparently it is too much for the planning department to do what i describe above so i keep getting knocked back.

Pulling my hair out.

How do i get the parameters to save ?

[AppleDown]

Something simple like this might work: https://www.pdf2go.com/resize-pdf

[BigBub]

Open your document in Adobe Acrobat and go to File -> Properties. You should see the Page Size of the document here. You now need to work out the scale factor you need to change from the current paper size to A1 (if it is currently 8.5" x 11" then you need to scale it up by 300.9% to get it to A1 dimensions). Then go to File -> Print and choose Adobe PDF as the printer and set the page size to Custom Scale: 300.9% and print the plan to the now correct paper size.

 

When using the Measuring Tool, you would need to set the scale ratio each time. The exception to this is if your document had an embedded scale, which you normally get when you create a plan in AutoCad etc.

 

 

[Alan Ambrose]

Ah thanks.

[Post and beam]

4 hours ago, BigBub said:

When using the Measuring Tool, you would need to set the scale ratio each time.

Thanks dude. But this is the crux of the problem.  The planning department dude claims that he can only open and use the settings as they are. So he wont use the scale factor. 

The consequence of this is that his measure tool reading against the scale bar in the bottom right corner does not match. 

Pulling my hair out with the guy.

[Mr Punter]

Offer £50 on here and someone will sort it for you.

[saveasteading]

Sorry, I think the planner is correct. They shouldn't be expected to make their own scale bar off your drawing, or calculate every dimension.

 

It's good practice to state what the scale will be when printed at a certain size.

Eg scale 1:100 at A3.

That makes it easy for the planner, and also anyone else that wants to look, and they can use a standard scale rule.

The same then applies for construction drawings.

 

It's difficult but the above offers of assistance should sort it for you.

 

[Kelvin]

13 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Sorry, I think the planner is correct. They shouldn't be expected to make their own scale bar off your drawing, or calculate every dimension.

 

It's good practice to state what the scale will be when printed at a certain size.

Eg scale 1:100 at A3.

That makes it easy for the planner, and also anyone else that wants to look, and they can use a standard scale rule.

The same then applies for construction drawings.

 

It's difficult but the above offers of assistance should sort it for you.

 

Same happened to us. Two of the drawings didn’t have a scale bar on them, one of the architects drawings and the topographical survey drawing. Planning rejected the application until they were updated. 

[Post and beam]

20 hours ago, saveasteading said:

It's difficult but the above offers of assistance should sort it for you.

 I am more than happy with the offers of help and have been corresponding with someone via PM. As well as trying the suggestions above.

You might have noticed my offer in my original post. See here....

On 05/02/2024 at 20:54, Post and beam said:

If anyone understands the intricacies of .pdf scale I offer a bottle of very good Red wine to anyone that can successfully get me over this hurdle.

 

[Post and beam]

Update: Success.

 

I have today been sent a full discharge and satisfaction of the 3 that were causing me such a headache. So for anyone else going through similar pain. I took a drawing from our planning consultants original application submission, removed their logo, jiggled it slightly in Windows Paint, added some scribble about SUD's compliance for the hard landscaping and submitted as my own. Bingo.

It was initially a concern that the ASHP was deemed by planning to not have been known to them and that i had to demonstrate that it complied with all their requirements. This is after i pointed out that the initial full planning application clearly showed a box saying ASHP as located outside of the Kitchen on the south side of the house. All good now though.

 

5. Condition 5 (Levels) attached to 3/22/2639/FUL can be discharged in full. Drawing nos. 22-036-101-LEVELS REV B and 22-036-101-SS REV B highlighting the proposed ground levels and ridge heights are considered to be acceptable.

 

6. Condition 6 (Climate Change) attached to 3/22/2639/FUL can be discharged in full. The submitted documents outline the dwellings compliance with building regulations, and methods of providing an adaptable dwelling. It is noted the inclusion of an air source heat pump for heating purposes, which complies with Schedule 2, Part 14, Class G of The Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) Order 2015, as confirmed by the applicant.

 

8. Condition 8 (Landscaping) attached to 3/22/2639/FUL can be discharged in full. The hard and soft landscaping proposal is considered to be acceptable. There is not considered to be any unacceptable arboricultural impact. The landscape officer has provided a comment on the discharge of this condition, in which they raise no objection.