Using muck away to level a paddock

[WannabeBob]

Hi all!

 

Been passively reading and absorbing in the wealth of information for the past year or so, but only just managed to buy a plot at the end of last year. We’re in the east and just about to start the planning process. 
 

I’m hoping to add a basement, but do have a budget to keep in mind, and was trying to find ways to reduce cost. I had a thought to use some of the soil we dig out to level out a paddock next to the plot, but is this legal and do we need to get planning permission to do so?

[nod]

Nothing to stop you 

We stripped  the top soil on our field and buried all the spoil and put the top soil back over it 

[WannabeBob]

Thanks Nod. That should save us a bit! Might not fit all the spoils from the basement dig out but reckon every bit helps

[saveasteading]

There's a magic height for fill of 4 feet at which planning matters can kick in.

Or if you are in a conservation area.

Otherwise it is good practice to avoid muck away. Where else would it be going?

A much more effective way to reduce cost is to not have a basement.

[nod]

3 hours ago, WannabeBob said:

Thanks Nod. That should save us a bit! Might not fit all the spoils from the basement dig out but reckon every bit helps

Thanks 

 

We saved about 19k on spoil Mostly Clay - 1500 3 day hire for the dozer 900 for fuel 

Still a good saving 

[SteamyTea]

3 hours ago, nod said:

stripped  the top soil on our field and buried all the spoil and put the top soil back over it 

I think that order is the important bit, from an ecological point of view.

The only thing to be careful is if it is clay subsoil, water runoff could be a problem.

[nod]

30 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

I think that order is the important bit, from an ecological point of view.

The only thing to be careful is if it is clay subsoil, water runoff could be a problem.

Ours was all bolder Clay Hence the expense I payed a deep six inch drain across the field 100 meters With four chambers each with land drains running from them that seems to work ok 

[SteamyTea]

2 minutes ago, nod said:

Hence the expense I payed a deep six inch drain across the field 100 meters With four chambers each with land drains running from them that seems to work ok

At least you thought about it and put a remedy in.

I wonder how many people just spread clay and then wonder why they get some localised flooding.

[WannabeBob]

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

There's a magic height for fill of 4 feet at which planning matters can kick in.

Or if you are in a conservation area.

Otherwise it is good practice to avoid muck away. Where else would it be going?

A much more effective way to reduce cost is to not have a basement.

Thanks for pointing out the gotcha. I think we should be safely below this magic threshold. The plot and the paddock slopes ever so slightly down so the thought of levelling it with spoils came to mind. Obviously if it turns out we can’t afford it’ll have to go. 

 

49 minutes ago, nod said:

Thanks 

 

We saved about 19k on spoil Mostly Clay - 1500 3 day hire for the dozer 900 for fuel 

Still a good saving 

that’s actually a decent savings! I’m not sure we’ll save quite as much as that but even 5-10k savings would be welcomed!

 

49 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

I think that order is the important bit, from an ecological point of view.

The only thing to be careful is if it is clay subsoil, water runoff could be a problem.

 

See, I wouldn’t have known to think of that, so thank you for pointing it out! We’ll have to a survey to check the ground composition, but we’ll bear that in mind. 

[Conor]

10 minutes ago, WannabeBob said:

Thanks for pointing out the gotcha. I think we should be safely below this magic threshold. The plot and the paddock slopes ever so slightly down so the thought of levelling it with spoils came to mind. Obviously if it turns out we can’t afford it’ll have to go. 

 

that’s actually a decent savings! I’m not sure we’ll save quite as much as that but even 5-10k savings would be welcomed!

 

 

See, I wouldn’t have known to think of that, so thank you for pointing it out! We’ll have to a survey to check the ground composition, but we’ll bear that in mind. 

1. We're in a conservation area and managed to keep about half of the risings on site. Sloping site so just looks like we've leveled out a bit... Even though towards the bottom we're a good 2m above original ground level.

 

2. Was a condition of our planning that we manage site run-off and put in mitigation measures to protect the river at the bottom of the garden. If you've any kind of slope, you'll want to stick up a silt fence to stop runoff to your neighbours etc. not too costly and DIY 

 

3. muck away costs are massively local. We paid something like £120 per 16t load. Next quote was £225. 816 tonme in all. Replaced with 400t of stone lol

 

Finally, you can just pile it up and figure out what to do with it at the end.

 

 

[saveasteading]

6 hours ago, nod said:

stripped  the top soil 

If you strip the topsoil along with all the vegetation, and pile it high, then it rots and is nicer topsoil to put back down. Ie don't bother separating out the vegetation.

Find out about the soil makeup and water table ASAP, before any commitment to building an inside out swimming pool.

[Gus Potter]

7 hours ago, WannabeBob said:

and was trying to find ways to reduce cost.

My pragmatic view. Your starting point is to spend a bit of money investigating the ground up front and in particular the behaviour of the ground water if considering a basement

 

This is where the cost uncertainty lies and the big risk. If you don't do this now you'll spend countless wasted hours trying to figure out the superstructure design.. and then you may have to revisit all of that once you learn later about the ground.

 

Now that and the following may seem a bit of a lecture but if you go to a TF company / basement company for example with limited information they will suss that out and inflate the price to cover the added risk / uncertainty. There are basically two rates.. if you have a Client that has not got a clue.. there is a risk there.. so you add more to the price. A well informed Client with good drawings and a bit of professional backup.. you charge less as the risk is reduced.. in the round you end up making the same profit as a Contractor.

 

How? well... if there are extras the professional team often play fair with you so you get a fair days work for a fair days pay. Mind you if you a Contractor who does not recognise fair play.. then the gloves come off.

 

To give you a ball park figure. You could get this kind of preliminary advice for about £1500.00. But once you get chatting to the person who is giving the advice they will tell you loads of other stuff, point out the pitfalls and engage with you... after a couple of conversations you'll probably realise that you have got value for money. For me all I need to do to wash my face is to save you one weeks labour on site for two operatives.

 

The sum is a bit like this this.. 1 x a skilled operative at 8 hours per day @ £250.00 per day for a week = 5 x 250 = £1250

A labourer at £120 per day x 5 = £600.00

 

£1250 + 600 = £1850.00 > my £1500.00

 

Now that is my rough sum.. but I know I can easily save folk that. It's just that folk don't believe it until they find out later that they maybe went about it the wrong way.

 

I know some BH folk are a hostile towards Architect's but @ETC is one and very experienced... just speculate.. how much someone like that could save you but still achieve the same in terms of Architectural design if you get them into the fold for the whole project!

 

Now imagine if you got both the SE, Architect and you all on the team early on.. The savings can be massive.. In some ways the professionals self regulate for the benefit of the project if they are committed.

 

There are some folk on BH that don't need this level of support, some are essentially highly experienced developers with a professional construction background. But most folk on BH are not like that.. I'm trying to look at it in the round. I did a self build many years ago and certainly did not know what I know now.. also at that time there was no internet and no Buildhub where you could go for advice.. I made mistakes / lost money based on what I know now.

 

In summary get an impartial professional in early who can guide and give you the information you need to make an informed decision, you still have control over the process.

 

 

 

 

[Alan Ambrose]

Of course, if you calc the quantity of soil removed and bulk it up by a fluff factor (say 15%) you can figure the increased depth on your paddock. I used a density of ~1.3T/m^3 and 11 £/T muckaway for comparison purposes. This was for clay.

[WannabeBob]

Thanks all! Really useful information and advice!

Yes a geotechnical survey is definitely one of the first things we’ll do.

I take it you do geotechnical surveys Gus?

 

This is our first self build, and we’re not in the construction industry either so we will most likely be engaging the services of an architect. I’m thinking a geotechnical survey then talking to a structural engineer and then looking for quotes to build a basement in that order, does that sounds about right?