General Questions for a new build newbie

[yessir]

Hi everyone,

 

After withdrawing an application last year and resubmitting after discussions with the planning officer and other appropriate parties, I’ve submitted another application with significant changes that took into account all comments made on the last attempt. 
 

I’m new to this world however I’ve been disheartened by just how negative local council and neighbour comments have been. The response to this ‘significantly’ smaller development has been ‘significantly’ more harsh in comparison to my first attempt and I’m struggling to not take any of it personally. 
 

My question to you all is, how much of the public comments do planning officers really take into account when determining the outcome? Some of the comments don’t make any sense to me (as I know the area well) but I’m worried that a planning officer or consultant might not be as in tune with the local area.

 

 

[joe90]

Welcome, yes planners are in a world of their own I have fought them on more than one occasion but don’t be despondent. Regarding neighbours comments they are only relevant if they have a valid planning objection, not “I don’t like it “, for example on my last build my neighbour objected to a new entrance as “our headlights would shine in their windows “ but when I went to appeal it was pointed out their house was 100+ yards away so their objection was not valid. IMO it’s not about being in tune with the local area but fitting in with the local planning framework and policies. With my appeal it was determined that even the planners were not abiding by their own policies and I won hands down 👍. Lots of advice here regarding planning “problems”, would be good to see the objections raised and your neighbours comments.

Edited December 27, 2023 by joe90

[Kelvin]

They don’t pay much attention to any neighbour objections so I wouldn’t worry too much what the neighbour’s say. 

[yessir]

13 minutes ago, joe90 said:

Welcome, yes planners are in a world of their own I have fought them on more than one occasion but don’t be despondent. Regarding neighbours comments they are only relevant if they have a valid planning objection, not “I don’t like it “, for example on my last build my neighbour objected to a new entrance as “our headlights would shine in their windows “ but when I went to appeal it was pointed out their house was 100+ yards away so their objection was not valid. IMO it’s not about being in tune with the local area but fitting in with the local planning framework and policies. With my appeal it was determined that even the planners were not abiding by their own policies and I won hands down 👍. Lots of advice here regarding planning “problems”, would be good to see the objections raised and your neighbours comments.

Thanks Joe, it’s reassuring knowing that others have been through the same hurdles! Can often feel lonely in this game. Think I’ll enjoy it here. 
 

I have a feeling that this will probably have to go to appeal. Regarding the neighbour and parish council comments - it’s strange as they’ve all picked up on issues we had with the first application, namely the proximity to a listed building. We’ve since addressed these issues with design, location and landscaping changes! 
 

Another question I have is should planning officers take into account previously approved applications as a precedent for their decision? There was a house in the other side of the listed building that got approved a few years ago and it’s significantly bigger/ less sympathetic to the building than our proposal. 

 

[nod]

Just let it wash over you 

Our near neighbors have apologized for the negative comments Stating it was the planning consultant that THEY employed to stop us that worded the objectionsssssssssd 😁

[joe90]

7 minutes ago, yessir said:

Think I’ll enjoy it here. 

Oh yes, we are a friendly and  knowledgable bunch 👍. 
 

 

7 minutes ago, yessir said:

There was a house in the other side of the listed building that got approved a few years ago and it’s significantly bigger/ less sympathetic to the building than our proposal. 

I believe that’s got to be taken into account and worth pointing out. With mine I got a “street scene” drawn up including my neighbours house etc to show my application in context so worth doing. IMO going to appeal is easier than applying for planning permission, I did my own and the department were more helpful than the planners department 🤷‍♂️Post you plans etc here (with personal details covered) and you will get loads of ideas and real life examples of what can be achieved.

Edited December 27, 2023 by joe90

[DevilDamo]

12 minutes ago, yessir said:

Another question I have is should planning officers take into account previously approved applications as a precedent for their decision?

Although it can help, each application is determined on its own merits.

 

Third party comments are noted and if they don’t relate to Planning policies and/or not material Planning issues, the comments will be disregarded. The only thing multiple comments can have is the formal determination being made by the Planning Committee and not Delegated Powers. Some LPA’s require a minimum number of objections in order to trigger a PC decision. And the “number” of objections relate to a property and not the person. So for example, a HMO would be deemed as one objection.

Edited December 27, 2023 by DevilDamo

[saveasteading]

1 hour ago, yessir said:

worried that a planning officer or consultant might not be as in tune with the local area.

They are generally very precise people who go by the written policy.

Objections tend to be very personal and not well explained or linked to policy and so be completely ignored.

Parish Councillors should study applications and consider them in detail, but tend not to take the trouble, but then spout forth about their own opinion (I know I was one of the few who did homework). Hence they are not generally taken much notice of either.  Bu they are if well structured and with reference to policy, as their local knowledge then has some weight.

 

Treat the planning officers with respect. It can be  tough job, especially with the big developers and their lawyers trying to catch them out. meanwhile their councilors are on their backs too.

Try to make your application relevant to policy. Yes refer to precedent.

Pictures, especially artist's impressions, help. Planners, and especially councilors, are not necessarily skilled at visualising.

 

 

 

[Bozza]

I’ve previously suggested in other discussions my own planning approach which was to have an early informal discussion with my excellent and helpful planners to get an understanding of potential issues the types of things that could cause issues, to read and understand local planning policies, and early discussions with neighbours.  Resulting in an uncontroversial and successful application.    But others rightly have pointed out not all local authorities have accessible and sensible planners like I encountered.

 

I’m unclear if your latest application has been knocked back or not.  One option you can consider is posting your designs here.  It may well be the case that what you’ve submitted is actually hideous and they have rightfully knocked you back, if it is we’ll tell you honestly and offer suggestions.  Likewise it may well be what you’ve  submitted is beautiful and we can give you that encouragement.  It may be a beautiful design but you’re trying to build it in an inappropriate location.  Thing is this group has zero agenda not being your neighbours, etc and we are obviously pro-build.    Just a thought.   I’ve seen a few designs posted in this forum and unsurprised that the application has been troublesome.

 

 

[Post and beam]

4 hours ago, Kelvin said:

They don’t pay much attention to any neighbour objections so I wouldn’t worry too much what the neighbour’s say.

I was told exactly the same thing when ours was granted in early march this year.  Although it might not look it the planning dept can spot a frivolous, vindictive or just plain irrelevant objection.

 

[yessir]

17 hours ago, Bozza said:

I’m unclear if your latest application has been knocked back or not.  One option you can consider is posting your designs here. 

Hasn't been knocked back... yet. About midway through the supposed 8 week determination cycle. But I anticipate an extension will be requested.

I'll attach a couple of screenshots to this post.

 

20 hours ago, joe90 said:

Oh yes, we are a friendly and  knowledgable bunch 👍. 
 

 

I believe that’s got to be taken into account and worth pointing out. With mine I got a “street scene” drawn up including my neighbours house etc to show my application in context so worth doing. IMO going to appeal is easier than applying for planning permission, I did my own and the department were more helpful than the planners department 🤷‍♂️Post you plans etc here (with personal details covered) and you will get loads of ideas and real life examples of what can be achieved.

Thanks Joe, I've attached a couple of screenshots that show the design proposal / the siting concerning the listed building (Which is the large 3 pronged building in the centre of the image / the proximity of the neighbours approved building to the south.

 

When you say it's easier going to appeal than applying for planning permission, does this mean you can skip the planning process entirely??

 

[DevilDamo]

4 minutes ago, yessir said:

When you say it's easier going to appeal than applying for planning permission, does this mean you can skip the planning process entirely??

No as you can only Appeal a determined application. I think Joe was stating that he thought the support team at the Planning Inspectorate were more helpful than those at the Local Planning Authority. 

Edited December 28, 2023 by DevilDamo

[joe90]

4 minutes ago, yessir said:

does this mean you can skip the planning process entirely??

No, you will appeal the planners decision to refuse. What are the purple and red dotted lines? (Previous application?).

[joe90]

2 minutes ago, DevilDamo said:

think Joe was stating that he thought the support team at the Planning Inspectorate were more helpful than those at the Local Planning Authority. 

Oh yes .

[yessir]

1 minute ago, joe90 said:

What are the purple and red dotted lines? (Previous application?).

Purple is the village boundary - I do own this land, however currently it's unbuild-upon-able. 

 

red dotted is the previous application, yes. Architect thought it a good idea to highlight the change in dimensions so as to 'prove' that we've taken into account previous comments.

 

[yessir]

12 minutes ago, joe90 said:

What are the purple and red dotted lines? (Previous application?).

 

Ah, apologies, yes the Purple and red dotted lines are previous applications. 

[joe90]

@yessir is you latest application acceptable to you? The reason I ask is I was told by the planners only my application no 4 was acceptable to them (2 bed only and downstairs bathroom, which I did not want) and accepted it as the footprint was the same as my original application and enabled the building to be started, i then appealed my original application and won so you can appeal a previous application and if you win build what you originally wanted.

[yessir]

@joe90 Interesting... I'm assuming I can't appeal a previous application if it was me who withdrew it? The current application is fine in principle in that the number of rooms / square footage is what I wanted. 

[DevilDamo]

4 minutes ago, yessir said:

I'm assuming I can't appeal a previous application if it was me who withdrew it?

You cannot Appeal a withdrawn application as it has not been formally determined. You can therefore only Appeal Approvals or Refusals.

[Alan Ambrose]

>>> i then appealed my original application and won so you can appeal a previous application and if you win build what you originally wanted.

 

@joe90 I was going to use that technique but our delightful LPA CIL people told me that I couldn't move the self-build exemption from one design to the other. Was that a problem in your case?

 

 

>>> should planning officers take into account previously approved applications as a precedent for their decision?

>>> Although it can help, each application is determined on its own merits.

 

That's true but there's also this:

 

Consistency Principle - The principle of consistency within planning decisions requires that a previous decision is capable of being a material consideration in a subsequent similar or related decision (see, for example: Mann LJ in North Wiltshire District Council v Secretary of State for the Environment (1993) 65 P & CR 137 and/or R (Midcounties Co-Operative Limited) v Forest of Dean District Council [2017] EWHC 2050) and/or Baroness Cumberlege v Secretary of State for Communities & Local Government [2017] EWHC 2057).

 

 

[joe90]

5 minutes ago, Alan Ambrose said:

I was going to use that technique but our delightful LPA CIL people told me that I couldn't move the self-build exemption from one design to the other. Was that a problem in your case?

No as I had no CIL (replacement dwelling).

[yessir]

17 minutes ago, Alan Ambrose said:

 

>>> should planning officers take into account previously approved applications as a precedent for their decision?

>>> Although it can help, each application is determined on its own merits.

 

That's true but there's also this:

 

Consistency Principle - The principle of consistency within planning decisions requires that a previous decision is capable of being a material consideration in a subsequent similar or related decision (see, for example: Mann LJ in North Wiltshire District Council v Secretary of State for the Environment (1993) 65 P & CR 137 and/or R (Midcounties Co-Operative Limited) v Forest of Dean District Council [2017] EWHC 2050) and/or Baroness Cumberlege v Secretary of State for Communities & Local Government [2017] EWHC 2057).

 

 

This is really interesting. I’ll keep this in mind if and when we go to appeal. Thank you!

[Bozza]

What have the objections been?  Are they of reasonable and of merit or just plain silly (eg “I don’t like the design”).   Or locals with pitchforks who want to remain in the 1950s etc.

looks like you are wanting to build in a rural location a partially timber clad low level house somewhat hidden by trees.  Nothing obviously crazy or offensive about that TBH.  
 

 

[BadgerBadger]

On 27/12/2023 at 14:30, yessir said:

 

I’m new to this world however I’ve been disheartened by just how negative local council and neighbour comments have been. The response to this ‘significantly’ smaller development has been ‘significantly’ more harsh in comparison to my first attempt and I’m struggling to not take any of it personally. 

 

My advice is don't jump to conclusions too early.  Just because neighbours/local council are objecting doesn't mean it's going to be refused.  If you've taken onboard and addressed the planning officers concerns from a previous application, have faith in that.

 

In reality the only opinion that actually matters is the the planning officer (with inputs from conversation officer etc.)

[yessir]

16 hours ago, Bozza said:

What have the objections been?  Are they of reasonable and of merit or just plain silly (eg “I don’t like the design”).   Or locals with pitchforks who want to remain in the 1950s etc.

looks like you are wanting to build in a rural location a partially timber clad low level house somewhat hidden by trees.  Nothing obviously crazy or offensive about that TBH.  
 

 

 

One objection was down to the our access road being opposite their driveway...  The highways response (received a few days later) has pretty much put that to bed.

 

There are then two objections which focus on the proximity to a listed building / heritage asset. One of those responders is well versed when it comes to the planning authority (having built their own project next door a couple of years ago) and has made sure to repeatedly reference policy. 

 

The frustrating thing is, they had no objection to the first app... Which was significantly larger. 

 

Also considering this is my second app - we have already taken into account comments made by the conservation officer.

Edited December 29, 2023 by yessir