Council Tax

[RichS]

Which services, or lack of, prevents the onset of council tax. I believe if a dwelling doesn't have potable water then council tax is not applied. Does the same go for electricity.

I am starting digging out this week so I know this problem lies a long way ahead in the future but I would like to get my water supply sorted out as I know this can be quite long winded. I already have mains gas from the road to my cabinet, no meter installed so not usable at the moment, and I have mains electric from the road to my cabinet, again no meters connected so again unusable. Would the lack of meters on these two services, or only one of them, prevent the council from imposing council tax.

[Crofter]

Some people on here have left their sewage treatment plants unconnected to demonstrate non-habitability, and that seems to have sufficed.

[RichS]

I won't have one of those, mains drains here

[ProDave]

Yes I left the electrical connection to my treatment plant until the last minute, just in case. But it seems here the CT assessor wasn't bothered until you actually move in. When I phoned him he said "Let me get your file..... ah yes I see I have visited your site 17 times so far"  Just looking to see if we have moved in yet.

[Jeremy Harris]

It's not clear, as the case law is old and hinges on judgements made on cases that pre-date the introduction of the Council Tax.  The key point that came out back when I ran into trouble with our council snooper was that in order for council tax to be levied the property has to be valued by the VOA and also has to be in a condition whereby it can be considered to be a rateable hereditament.

 

This hinges on a couple of bits of case law, that have defined some circumstances when a particular property could be deemed a hereditament, and the judgements are here:

 

http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup.cgi?doc=/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2011/2125.html&query=rgm&method=boolean

 

http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKUT/LC/2011/RA_63_2008_Dec.html

 

I know, beyond doubt, that not having a potable water supply to the house makes in uninhabitable, as far as the law goes surrounding it being an hereditament.  There is some indication that not having a means of foul waste disposal may also render it uninhabitable, but I think this is less reliable, as there could be a counter argument that a portable toilet needs to be on site in order to comply with HS&E laws.  It's possible that not having an electricity supply may also scupper the council tax bods, but again I'm not sure I'd rely on it, as there are plenty of people who live off-grid and still pay council tax.

 

The most reliable way of keeping a house that's still under construction in a state where council tax cannot be charged would be to ensure it has no potable water supply.  Our council, who were rude, belligerent, broke several laws when snooping around and were generally determined to get us to pay up, had to admit that not having potable water meant they were unable to issue a notice of intended completion, and so start the VOA process that leads to the charging of council tax.

 

In our case, because we had a borehole, I had the water privately tested to make sure it was safe, but did not inform the environmental health people at the council and did not have the official environmental health water testing done.  I will admit I did this out of spite, as the council had annoyed me by their attitude and accusations.  As a consequence we had around an extra year of paying no council tax.  Had the council behaved reasonably then I would have had the water tested earlier and paid the council tax earlier, but they put my back up, and this was my way at getting back at them.

Edited September 17, 2017 by JSHarris

[Lesgrandepotato]

Interesting. We had to pay full council tax for the entire renovation as the property was not eligible for a payment holiday. Does this look inhabitable?

[Jeremy Harris]

3 minutes ago, Lesgrandepotato said:

Interesting. We had to pay full council tax for the entire renovation as the property was not eligible for a payment holiday. Does this look inhabitable?

 

I think your problem is that the property was already on the valuation list, and so had already been deemed an hereditament.  Not sure how you can undo this after the event, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that there might be a way to have a property taken off the list.  The snag then is that it would need to be revalued by the VOA on completion, and they may well put a higher value on it that it has now.

[ProDave]

If it's on the list in your name and you extend it, then the valuation and banding does not change until it changes ownership so you night be better off just paying it at the old rate. If as pointed out you get it off the valuation list, then you can be sure it will be in a higher band when it is re listed later on.

 

Our static van is on the list now. If we suddenly moved out to live back in our old house, I can't see any way to get that off the list short of removing it from the site so that is stuck on the valuation list now until the new house is complete.

[Crofter]

Say, hypothetically, you had someone in a tent in the field next to your site... and you felt sorry for them when their tent started letting the rain in... and you let them sleep on the floor of your new build... how many nights would have to go by before your crossed the line and it was deemed 'inhabited'?

 

(asking for a friend, obviously!)

[RichS]

Thanks for the replies folks. It seems to me, having read Jeremy's links, that lack of electricity connected would make it none council taxable ??.

I appreciate  that plenty of people live off grid and still pay CT but their houses have been designed to be this way and they probably have another source of electricity, i.e wind / solar etc.

As stated earlier this is a potential problem for the future but it's nice to have an idea of which way to go.

Edited September 17, 2017 by RichS

[ProDave]

I think it's largely down to how reasonable your council is. Some seem reasonable, some seem to want to grab every penny they can even if it's unreasonable but "legal"

 

Ours did not seem bothered charging CT for the static 'van until we actually moved in. Others seem intent on charging it as soon as you are able to move in regardless of whether you do or not.

[Jeremy Harris]

The policy here is to try and issue a notice of intended completion as soon as possible after first fix, on the basis that the notice period is three months and all houses should be habitable three months after first fix.

 

This may work OK for the big developers, but some of us self-builders take years to build a house, so the "rule" that our council apply is bonkers.  To be fair, the first people in the council I dealt with were the ones that deal with commercial developments, and they have staff who go around sites after hours specifically to check on which houses on the development look  as if first fix is completed, to trigger the completion notice process.  The very rude woman that I initially spoke to probably thought I was a commercial developer, rather than a self builder, and even had my name down incorrectly on the paperwork, she had me listed as the previous owner of the plot.

 

Her manager was very different, not exactly understanding, and did try to defend her staff having a right of entry without notice to restricted access areas of a building site (with no PPE, as it happens, either).  Her attitude did change when she checked the files they held and couldn't find a reference to a water connection from Wessex Water.  As soon as I explained we didn't have one (I didn't mention the borehole............) she did change her stance noticeably, asking me to let her know when we had the water connected.

 

I did complain about the unauthorised access, but frankly was fobbed off three times by the council abusing their own complaints procedure, and I couldn't be bothered to continue chasing it up, as they were threatening me with being a vexatious correspondent.  It was a good way to be sure that I would delay until the last possible moment getting the house to meet the legal definition of a rateable heriditament though, just to deny them a load of council tax, on a matter of principle.

Edited September 17, 2017 by JSHarris

[Temp]

Our council wrote to us out of the blue saying they will assume we will be complete on a date and proposing to charge us from that date. We wrote back telling them the date we believed we would finish and they just accepted it. I think it took us at least 6 months to get from first fix to completion.

[ProDave]

There's a lesson here. If you are going to take a long time, leave one room completely bare and not first fixed. Preferably one at the front that any nosey parker can look in and see a bare room.

[Triassic]

On 17/09/2017 at 15:35, Lesgrandepotato said:

 

Interesting. We had to pay full council tax for the entire renovation as the property was not eligible for a payment holiday. Does this look inhabitable?

 

I think you were done!

 

from the South Lakes Council web site..

Uninhabitable and vacant properties

Two classes of 'local' discount have been available since 1 April 2013. We have set this discount at 100%.

• uninhabitable property that requires, or is undergoing, major works to render it habitable, or is undergoing structural alteration. This discount will apply for a maximum period of 12 months (as long as the property remains unoccupied and unfurnished)
•  

[Lesgrandepotato]

Yep - I think we were, the property had received a payment holiday in the past with another owner and apparently this means we cannot have a payment holiday...