New entrance - planning permission

[Chocblock]

I have been granted drop kerb approval for a second entrance to the rear of my property by Highways. However, at the final invoice stage, Highways informed me they were told I needed planning permission – despite the council saying I did not at the start of the process.

 

The access is on to a red brick cul-de-sac on an estate, which is an unclassified road. I would need to remove a 10ft section of 5ft-high wall for the new access.

 

On a pre-application, planners have said I need permission because I “seek to cross land which does not form part of the highway nor your domestic cartilage”.

 

However, according to my property deeds, the two-metre strip of land I need to cross from my boundary to the red brick road is a utility strip. And according to the deeds, the “utility strip forms part of the highway”.

 

So I do not need “to cross land which does not form part of the highway nor my domestic cartilage”.

 

In the pre-application, planners “do not raise any significant concerns at this stage”.

 

I have supplied the utility strip/verge information with supporting documents to planners, but more than three months on, I am still waiting for an answer.

 

Any thoughts/opinions/advice welcome. Thank you.

[joe90]

34 minutes ago, Chocblock said:

However, according to my property deeds, the two-metre strip of land I need to cross from my boundary to the red brick road is a utility strip. And according to the deeds, the “utility strip forms part of the highway”.

I tend to agree (but planners are on a different planet!!), I would forward your answer to highways explaining that planning are not responding, they may show some light on it for you.

[Bozza]

So you’re still effectively at pre planning stage then, awaiting a confirmation that you don’t need planning from the planning dept before undertaking the work and satisfying highways. 

 

What explanation have they (planning) provided in respects of the decision delay and do they have any timescale targets that they may be missing.    If you’re not getting any reply to your query perhaps contact your local elected councillor to get representation in your behalf regarding the delay.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chocblock]

7 hours ago, Bozza said:

So you’re still effectively at pre planning stage then, awaiting a confirmation that you don’t need planning from the planning dept before undertaking the work and satisfying highways. 

 

What explanation have they (planning) provided in respects of the decision delay and do they have any timescale targets that they may be missing.    If you’re not getting any reply to your query perhaps contact your local elected councillor to get representation in your behalf regarding the delay.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, I'm hoping I don't need planning permission - but I'm not 100% sure as I'm no expert. 

Planners haven't got back to me at all since September so I'm not sure why they are taking so long.

A call to the local councillor is a good shout if it drags on much more. Thanks.

[Chocblock]

8 hours ago, joe90 said:

I would forward your answer to highways explaining that planning are not responding, they may show some light on it for you.

Thanks for the reply. At the point of invoice, the Highways chap said he was unaware of this particular planning requirement - and passed me on to planners for further clarification

[Jilly]

Are you planning to build a house in your garden and need access? If so, the entrance details would have to be included in that application anyway. 
 
However, assuming you just want another entrance: you might need the Certificate of Lawfulness route. It is used when, for example, doing an extension, which you think doesn’t need planning permission but you want to be sure before you spend. If they’ve already told you you need planning, that hardly seems worth it though. 

Some planning depts seem less forthcoming with free advice than they used to be. 

 

Edited December 22, 2023 by Jilly

[Chocblock]

13 hours ago, Jilly said:

However, assuming you just want another entrance: you might need the Certificate of Lawfulness route.
 

Yes, I already have an entrance at the front - it's just for another entrance at the back.

[Marvin]

If the strip of land is not part of the highway who does it belong to?

[joe90]

I had to look into this with my new entrance and I established that green verges were historically pavements for people and horses and so part of the highway.

[ProDave]

9 minutes ago, joe90 said:

I had to look into this with my new entrance and I established that green verges were historically pavements for people and horses and so part of the highway.

Generally unfenced green verges withing 3 metres of the road are classed as the highway.

[Chocblock]

59 minutes ago, Marvin said:

If the strip of land is not part of the highway who does it belong to?

According to my deeds the green strip is a utility strip - and the "utility strip forms part of the highway".

Planners made no suggestion who owns it, they just claimed I did not know - and went ahead with the pre-application without asking.

[Chocblock]

38 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Generally unfenced green verges withing 3 metres of the road are classed as the highway.

The Highways chap who did the drop kerb site survey was of the same opinion.

[Jilly]

I think it doesn’t much matter who owns the strip, highways or not, unless an owner is not the adjacent land owner and is trying to block the creation of an entrance. Highways would only do that for safety reasons, I think. 

[Temp]

2 hours ago, Chocblock said:

According to my deeds the green strip is a utility strip - and the "utility strip forms part of the highway".

Planners made no suggestion who owns it, they just claimed I did not know - and went ahead with the pre-application without asking.

 

I would contact highways and ask them to confirm in writing that the highway extends across the green land as mentioned in the attached deeds. 

 

Then write to the planners stating that you do not need planning permission to form an access onto an unclassified highway which the highways department have confirmed includes the green land.

 

If worried about future come back apply for a Certificate of Lawfulness. On the grounds that that highway extends to your property boundary.

[Chocblock]

10 minutes ago, Temp said:

I would contact highways and ask them to confirm in writing that the highway extends across the green land as mentioned in the attached deeds. 

 

Then write to the planners stating that you do not need planning permission to form an access onto an unclassified highway which the highways department have confirmed includes the green land.

 

If worried about future come back apply for a Certificate of Lawfulness. On the grounds that that highway extends to your property boundary.

 

Thanks for your advice. Yes, I believe our property boundary extends to the highway.

 

Does anyone know if there are any other reasons why planning permission would be required? Would taking down a section of 5ft-high wall and replacing with an internal sliding gate need planning permission?

[Temp]

7 hours ago, Chocblock said:

Would taking down a section of 5ft-high wall and replacing with an internal sliding gate need planning permission?

 

I think that's only needed if it's in a Conservation area or it's listed.