Driveway help please

[ChrissyUK]

Hello all! I’m hoping for some advice please. We had our driveway done in the Summer by a local, highly recommended team. Unfortunately I don’t think the finish of the drive is correct and have been asking the owner to come back to see it / discuss, which he keeps saying he will do but hasn’t. He has said he could patch the area but it would be visible. 
 

I am wondering if it’s unreasonable to expect for the top layer to be re-done? And if so how I word this to him please? This cost us £5,000. We paid £500 deposit bank transfer and the rest one lump sum of cash. 
 

Many thanks 

[markc]

If you are talking about the square indentation, it looks like a mark left by a jackleg for a loader crane or tele handler possibly.

[ChrissyUK]

Thanks Mark, the only equipment they had on the drive were the whacker etc no large equipment not used for driveways. It’s right in the middle of the drive (which is steep) and is really noticeable- I’m just wondering is this is “normal” and I just have to ignore it or if I should expect him to fix it. He’s offered to patch it but says it will be noticeable 

[bassanclan]

You might expect it to be redone, but you have no leverage and a more thorough inspection taken place before handing over the cash

[Bozza]

Was it there when you handed over the cash, and did you discuss that at the time, or did it appear afterwards.  Is there a contract, emails etc and is it a proper business / company.

 

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by Bozza

[ChrissyUK]

4 hours ago, Bozza said:

Was it there when you handed over the cash, and did you discuss that at the time, or did it appear afterwards.  Is there a contract, emails etc and is it a proper business / company.

 

 

No it wasn’t there on completion it seems to have “appeared” on settling? I wouldn’t have stumped up the cash If it was like that on the day. Just so disappointing it’s such a lot of money. Yes a proper company and meant to be guaranteed for 20 years

[ChrissyUK]

7 hours ago, bassanclan said:

You might expect it to be redone, but you have no leverage and a more thorough inspection taken place before handing over the cash

Unfortunately it wasn’t there the day of completion we were happy with how it looked for a week or 2! Such a lot of money for us

[Bozza]

How many days after installation was the driveway sectioned off for and how many days after installation did it appear.  Was is sectioned off when this mark appeared.  Where the mark is, was there anything underneath it before eg a drain cover.

 

 

[bassanclan]

If it looked good for a couple of days I suspect it is damage done by either a delivery lorry, heavy pallet etc

[ChrissyUK]

38 minutes ago, bassanclan said:

If it looked good for a couple of days I suspect it is damage done by either a delivery lorry, heavy pallet etc

We’ve had no delivery lorry’s or pallets delivered - the drive was unused for 2 weeks and nothing on there since apart from when we started to put the Mini on it but we don’t park that low it goes up the top:-(

[ChrissyUK]

44 minutes ago, Bozza said:

How many days after installation was the driveway sectioned off for and how many days after installation did it appear.  Was is sectioned off when this mark appeared.  Where the mark is, was there anything underneath it before eg a drain cover.

 

 

It was not driven on for 2 weeks and it was barricaded off for over a week. If a van pulled up at most it would be on the flat pavement directly in front - not on drive. It was a driveway before but had been rubble for a year post extension. It looks like lots of lines from where they tried to make it flat if that makes sense? 

[Bozza]

1 hour ago, ChrissyUK said:

It was not driven on for 2 weeks and it was barricaded off for over a week. If a van pulled up at most it would be on the flat pavement directly in front - not on drive. It was a driveway before but had been rubble for a year post extension. It looks like lots of lines from where they tried to make it flat if that makes sense? 

So I’m struggling to understand how tarmac could possibly create that very square shaped indent as a result of settlement, if it was perfect on installation..  If there was a problem with the ground sinking I would have throught it would be a more rounded dip.   Several of us have observed it looks more like damage after installation.  Though tarmac can be driven on after a few days it can remain quite soft, and susceptible to damage, for weeks after, as it can be a bit soft.  Weather can play a part in that.  My own newly installed tarmac drive sustained some scores and indents a month or so after installation, but I saw what caused that and it was a pallet truck wheel. 
 

if that indent appeared then got worse over a few days then obviously that’s unlikely to be damage and might something wrong in the sub base, but if you just noticed it like that one day it’s much more likely to be external damage. 
 

The thing is of all the places the marks are located it’s appears to be central to the driveway entrance, and it appear on a grade so exactly where a vehicle, van or whatever would come in and potentially damage it.  The indents aren’t located in the corner for example near a wall.

what explanation has the business owner given for the problem, as I assume you’ve sent photos..  Has he suggested it would be external damage.  Before you get into who is liable for what you’ll need to establish what caused it.    I doubt anyone here can tell you it’s anything other than damage, unless you’ve got CCTV that can confirm 100% it’s not.   If you’re adamant it’s not damage you could get a tarmac expert in to inspect and survey it to confirm it’s installed incorrectly.  Then take that to your installer because if that bits wrong so could the rest of it be.  That irrefutable evidence would support a claim in the small claims court if you fail to get progress directly with the installer.

 

if your contractor is a local reputable business as much as you explain he is, with lots of verifiable recommendations (eg not Facebook) he wouldn’t have got that reputation by being bad at his job.  Did you get a personal recommendation by someone you know. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by Bozza

[Roundtuit]

I'd be more concerned about the drain across the drive tbh.  Has it sunk, or was it fitted like that?  The edging top left of the photo doesn't look entirely professional either.  Perhaps get an independent 3rd party to give it a look over before discussing further with them.

[ChrissyUK]

13 hours ago, Bozza said:

So I’m struggling to understand how tarmac could possibly create that very square shaped indent as a result of settlement, if it was perfect on installation..  If there was a problem with the ground sinking I would have throught it would be a more rounded dip.   Several of us have observed it looks more like damage after installation.  Though tarmac can be driven on after a few days it can remain quite soft, and susceptible to damage, for weeks after, as it can be a bit soft.  Weather can play a part in that.  My own newly installed tarmac drive sustained some scores and indents a month or so after installation, but I saw what caused that and it was a pallet truck wheel. 
 

if that indent appeared then got worse over a few days then obviously that’s unlikely to be damage and might something wrong in the sub base, but if you just noticed it like that one day it’s much more likely to be external damage. 
 

The thing is of all the places the marks are located it’s appears to be central to the driveway entrance, and it appear on a grade so exactly where a vehicle, van or whatever would come in and potentially damage it.  The indents aren’t located in the corner for example near a wall.

what explanation has the business owner given for the problem, as I assume you’ve sent photos..  Has he suggested it would be external damage.  Before you get into who is liable for what you’ll need to establish what caused it.    I doubt anyone here can tell you it’s anything other than damage, unless you’ve got CCTV that can confirm 100% it’s not.   If you’re adamant it’s not damage you could get a tarmac expert in to inspect and survey it to confirm it’s installed incorrectly.  Then take that to your installer because if that bits wrong so could the rest of it be.  That irrefutable evidence would support a claim in the small claims court if you fail to get progress directly with the installer.

 

if your contractor is a local reputable business as much as you explain he is, with lots of verifiable recommendations (eg not Facebook) he wouldn’t have got that reputation by being bad at his job.  Did you get a personal recommendation by someone you know. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you. It’s probably hard to see from the one photo I’ve added but the pavement at the bottom of the drive is where any delivery drivers pull up half on the pavement and half on the road. We have CCTV and nobody has been on the drive. It has definitely got worse over time. There are lots of lines on it as they said they struggled to smooth it over with the various angles of the drive but it was a lot smoother when it was first done a few months ago. He was meant to come again yesterday but has again not turned up. I’ve attached a photo of the drive from the doorway to show the angles they had to work with in case this helps. 

[ChrissyUK]

9 hours ago, Roundtuit said:

I'd be more concerned about the drain across the drive tbh.  Has it sunk, or was it fitted like that?  The edging top left of the photo doesn't look entirely professional either.  Perhaps get an independent 3rd party to give it a look over before discussing further with them.

I’m worried that may have sunk also. It was also flat on completion. This is the drive on completion if this helps. 

[ChrissyUK]

Thank you everyone for your help. I will try to see if another company can come out to view it although I guess they may be reluctant as nothing in it for them? I understand they had the challenge of drive being steep and it coming in from the steps side too, and concrete to go around for the fence posts etc but I am disappointed and just wanted to know if I was being “picky” or if it’s not a great job. Worried as we paid mostly cash but also they said it’s guaranteed but I guess if he won’t even come to view it and discuss I’m not going to get very far with that. 

[Bozza]

Maybes try this organisation as a starter point, you’ll need to get an independent surveyor in.  They may be able it direct you if they deal more with commercial tarmac as opposed to domestic. 
 

Is there a written guarantee eg an email or contract or was it all word of mouth type arrangement.  
 

if you pay for an independent survey and it says the work is substandard etc and the installer fails to rectify have a look at small claims court, if you wish to go down that route.

 

You never said was this a proper registered company or someone from Facebook or whatever.

 

https://www.rsta-uk.org

[Marvin]

Hi @ChrissyUK

 

Unfortunately, a reasonable repair would cause the top service changes to be visible. 

 

If you have CCTV that recorded all the time since laid until marks/depression showed and you checked it all 24hours a day, 7 days a week, and no unusual vehicle (ignoring your cars) caused the depression, it would mean the ground below the tarmac has sunk and the tarmac with it.

 

Answering these questions would help people to understand what has caused the problem.

 

Where does the water running down the pictured down pipe go when it rains?

Is there a drain connected to it?

It looks to run towards the gully.

 

Is the gully connected to a drain?

When it rain heavily does the rain puddle over the gully?

Was the top of the gully the same level as the kerb edges next to the gully when the work was finished and now?

I would guess that the gully grate is now lower than it was.

Have you got a photo of all the way across the gully when the work was first completed?

 

My guess at the moment is that the ground around the gully fills with water, making the ground a soft spot. 

 

Marvin.

 

 

 

 

[Tosh]

Whats underneath may be the issue e.g. soft spot. Not clear but looks like a 6mm wearing course, what did they lay it onto e.g. existing tarmac, stone, etc? What prep did they do? 6mm top coat really needs a good bitmac subbase e.g. 40-50mm of 20mm bitmac otherwise it will just shift around, especially in warm weather and wheel scrubbing. Or if its going on existing tarmac then a coat of bitumen emulsion to make the two bond together. Or possibly had the wacker in one place for too long and over wacker'd it in that one place to remove some of the lines, or a lump maybe and its just showing more prominent now? Steep drives are problematic to tarmac - on one hand you want good consolidation which you need a roller for but on the other hand the roller tends to push the tarmac down the slope creating lumps n bumps. Wackers are ok for doing the edges and tight spots but I wouldn't recommend them to consolidate something you're going to drive on. A single bowl walk behind roller may have been a better option. Could be a number of reasons but usually the problem is in the sub base/prep. Do you have any pictures of before it was done?