Drayton programmer service interval reset tool?

[Jeremy Harris]

I've just run into a problem, which, to be frank, has me steaming mad with Drayton  controls for being more like Apple than Apple are.  I had been using a standard immersion heater type time switch to turn our heating system on and off each day.  This worked fine (in fact I've just had to re-install it due to Drayton's stupidity) but it wasn't as intuitive to set and adjust as a normal heating controller.  All I need is a single channel time switch, with programmable days and times, nothing famcy.  All it does is switch a single low current control circuit on or off, but it does need to be something that my other half can use easily.  As we have a Drayton programmable thermostat controlling the combi in the old house, and as SWMBO can work that just fine, I decided that if I fitted the simplest timer that Drayton make, that works in much the same way as the programmable thermostat she's used to, then life would be easy.

 

Alas, all was not so simple.  I fitted the thing about a year ago, and it has worked fine, until now.  It seems that the idiots at Drayton now send these things out with a gas boiler service interval timer pre-enabled.  This means that after a year the bloody thing starts flashing "SEr dUE" on the display, and sounding an alarm.  30 days later the bloody thing just stops working, until it's reset using a special tool from Drayton, that they will only sell to a properly certified heating engineer, plus the tool costs £50!!!  More than the damned time switch.

 

I've got hold of the installers instructions, and it seems that there is a process for disabling the service interval timer in these things, by holding down the "-" button for 8 seconds, when a service mode menu comes up, which allows the service interval feature and the audible alarm to be disabled.  This is fine, you can disable these in this menu, but unless you then hold the super-duper, expensive, service resetting tool up against the front of the unit when the "Con" message comes up (for "confirm") then the unit stays dead; the service menu changes don't get saved.

 

Right now I have a programmer for our ASHP that is just junk, unless I can get hold of the special tool.  Sadly I don't know any heating engineers, and the ones I've rung around want more than the cost of the tool to come around and do 30 seconds work resetting the thing.

 

So, my options are:

 

1.  Ask kindly on here to see if anyone has the special Drayton tool (it's described in this document: http://www.draytoncontrols.co.uk/sites/default/files/LPsi Reset (I. Guide).pdf ) and if so would they mind lending it to me for a day so I can turn this "feature" permanently off.

 

2.  Bin the year old controller and buy another one that doesn't have this feature programmed in default by the factory.

 

FWIW, I can understand why this feature could be very useful for gas appliances fitted in rented properties, where it would force the landlord to do the required annual gas boiler servicing.  I can understand why it's useful for anyone who needs a reminder to get a gas appliance serviced.  What annoys the living daylights out of me is that Drayton pre-programme these things into this mode, so anyone with electric heating or who doesn't need the servicing or alarm nanny has a major inconvenience.  What's more, they don't make it clear when you buy one that this stupid feature is enabled by default, and to disable it will more than double the cost of the unit...............

 

Screwfix sell the reset unit, for £125, I've just discovered ( http://www.screwfix.com/p/drayton-lpsi-reset-unit/6292r ), but as I only paid around £30 (IIRC) for the new programmer, I'm buggered if I'm going to pay £125 for something I'll use once, just to make the damned programme do what it is supposed to do.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2017 by JSHarris

[ProDave]

Where did you buy it? How long is the guatantee? If >1 year, return it as "faulty"

 

I have never heard of this nonsense before. Thanks for mentioning it, I know now to avoid Drayton programmers. The place for a timer to enforce servicing intervals is INSIDE the boiler, not in a bloody programmer.

 

I would even argue with the supplier if out of guarantee that it is not "fir for purpose" in the condition it is supplied.

[Jeremy Harris]

I bought it a year ago.  I've rung the supplier ( the local electrical place in town) and they say this is not a warranty issue, as it only concerns an installer setting and that anyway they don't stock the reset tool...................

 

Apparently it they are all sold like this by default, now, in order to comply with some legislation that applies to rented properties, or that's what Drayton (now Invensys) say.  They do it this way because only their authorised installers should fit these things (even though they are openly on sale all over the place) and their authorised installers have the £125 special IR remote control gizmo needed to reset the thing.

[ProDave]

Perhaps the forum needs  reset tool in it's loan stock?

 

If the instructions do not make it clear this feature is turned on and you need an expensive tool to turn it off, then I still say it is not fit for purpose. I would be arguing that point very strongly.

 

There is a gas safe plumber in the village, when I next see him I will ask if he has this tool.

[PeterW]

You could always buy the reset tool from Screwfix and then return it "as it didn't work with your controller......" 

[Jeremy Harris]

I agree with the damned thing not being fit for purpose when used to control anything other than a gas appliance that requires a mandatory annual service and safety check, but Drayton are adamant that as the instructions make it clear that only a properly certified installer should fit one of the things, and as any properly certified installer will have the expensive reset tool, they are acting responsibly by sending out units set by default to stop working after 12 months, unless reset by a certified heating engineer with the tool.

 

Similarly, the supplier is adamant that they have checked with Drayton, and that the unit is working properly, and as designed, so it's not a warranty issue.

[Jeremy Harris]

Just now, PeterW said:

You could always buy the reset tool from Screwfix and then return it "as it didn't work with your controller......" 

 

That's tempting!  However, it seems a bit unfair on Screwfix, as the problem lies with Drayton being draconian is trying to force the use of their own certified installers.  If it was a complex bit of kit with integral safety issues that required regular servicing I could, perhaps, understand it, but it's a cheap single channel time switch.

[Triassic]

The best advice is don't buy Drayton controllers, simple!

[ProDave]

10 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

I agree with the damned thing not being fit for purpose when used to control anything other than a gas appliance that requires a mandatory annual service and safety check, but Drayton are adamant that as the instructions make it clear that only a properly certified installer should fit one of the things, and as any properly certified installer will have the expensive reset tool, they are acting responsibly by sending out units set by default to stop working after 12 months, unless reset by a certified heating engineer with the tool.

 

Similarly, the supplier is adamant that they have checked with Drayton, and that the unit is working properly, and as designed, so it's not a warranty issue.

Yes, but do the instructions state this is ONLY to be used for controlling a gas boiler, and ONLY to be installed by  gas safe engineer?  If not, then Drayton are at fault.

 

What if it was controlling an oil or electric boiler? (which yours in effect is)

 

I like @PeterW idea.It's probably what I would do (get a friend or your wife to buy it and return it from the same supplier that sold you the programmer)

[ProDave]

3 minutes ago, Triassic said:

The best advice is don't buy Drayton controllers, simple!

Perhaps not that simple. searched a bit and found the same issue with a Danfoss controller.

 

Now if this IS some more nanny state dictat about having to enforce a service interval, then is should be made CLEAR that some models have this "feature" and is should still be possible to buy them without, e,g for an electric boiler.

[PeterW]

These are the ones I use - always found ESI to be good at tech support 

 

ESI Single Channel

 

They now do a 16 amp version too - going to use that as immersion control. 

[dpmiller]

are you even sure the reset device is terribly smart? Might try waving a magnet (or an electromagnet on AC) over the display while it's waiting to be zapped...

[Triassic]

I searched for "Drayton controller hacks" lots of information there for the clued up amongst us.

 

Not sure if this helps http://www.draytoncontrols.co.uk/sites/default/files/LPsi Reset (I. Guide).pdf

 

According to the blurb I've just read on another forum, these types of controller were only meant to be used in Social Housing, as a way of ensuring the annual gas safety checks were done. More info here http://www.gasapplianceguide.co.uk/drayton_lifestyle_si_programmers.htm.

 

Maybe you should take the controller back to where you purchased it and ask them to change it, after all it was never meant to be the used in your situation.

 

 

Edited September 13, 2017 by Triassic

[Jeremy Harris]

25 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Yes, but do the instructions state this is ONLY to be used for controlling a gas boiler, and ONLY to be installed by  gas safe engineer?  If not, then Drayton are at fault.

 

What if it was controlling an oil or electric boiler? (which yours in effect is)

 

I like @PeterW idea.It's probably what I would do (get a friend or your wife to buy it and return it from the same supplier that sold you the programmer)

 

No, the instructions don't state that it should only be used with a gas appliance, in fact they say that it can be used to control any heating system that has a low current (less than 3A @ 230 VAC) control circuit, or a no-volt switch control circuit.  The advertise the service interval feature, but nowhere in the installation instructions does it mention that this is turned on by default when you buy the thing.

 

When I bought this, I specifically asked the chap in the electrical factor for the most basic single channel version, and that I wanted to just switch the control circuit on an ASHP system.  I did specifically ask for a Drayton, but only because SWMBO is used to using the other Drayton we have (which looks very similar, but has a thermostat and doesn't have this service interval "feature").

 

29 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Perhaps not that simple. searched a bit and found the same issue with a Danfoss controller.

 

Now if this IS some more nanny state dictat about having to enforce a service interval, then is should be made CLEAR that some models have this "feature" and is should still be possible to buy them without, e,g for an electric boiler.

 

It does look as if it is a nanny state dictat, as when I spoke to Drayton earlier they told me they had introduced this feature to allow landlords to comply with some regulations regarding mandatory servicing of gas appliances.  Presumably Danfoss have done the much the same.

 

17 minutes ago, Triassic said:

I searched for "Drayton controller hacks" lots of information there for the clued up amongst us.

 

Not sure if this helps http://www.draytoncontrols.co.uk/sites/default/files/LPsi Reset (I. Guide).pdf

 

 

That link is the one in my first post, which explains the process, but without the special £125 reset tool the timer just resets to the off state, with the service due message.  The tool is needed to make the reset process permanent.  I guess this is to stop the unscrupulous from just turning off the alarm and cut-off to avoid servicing a gas appliance.

 

I'll do some digging around with hacks, as it seems clear that the reset tool is just an IR remote type device.  If I can find the codes and protocol that need to be sent, then programming a microcontroller to just send that code should be easy.  The hard part will be finding the protocol and code used!

[Triassic]

Are these the codes ? http://www.homeautomationhub.com/content/boiler-control-using-urf

[ProDave]

9 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

 

No, the instructions don't state that it should only be used with a gas appliance, in fact they say that it can be used to control any heating system that has a low current (less than 3A @ 230 VAC) control circuit, or a no-volt switch control circuit.  The advertise the service interval feature, but nowhere in the installation instructions does it mention that this is turned on by default when you buy the thing.

 

When I bought this, I specifically asked the chap in the electrical factor for the most basic single channel version, and that I wanted to just switch the control circuit on an ASHP system.  I did specifically ask for a Drayton, but only because SWMBO is used to using the other Drayton we have (which looks very similar, but has a thermostat and doesn't have this service interval "feature").

 

So he sold you the wrong item. I repeat my claim it is not fit for the purpose you specifically asked for so it IS their problem.

[MikeSharp01]

Can you record the IR sequence from 'the tool' and then replay it using a recording remote I wonder then share the sequence on the net and Drayton won't be able to change the sequence without updating the existing 'tool's. The sequence is unlikely to be hand shaken or anything is it although it may be copyright. 

[Jeremy Harris]

Just now, ProDave said:

So he sold you the wrong item. I repeat my claim it is not fit for the purpose you specifically asked for so it IS their problem.

 

I'll give it another try tomorrow, but I suspect that he'll just repeat back to me that the instructions state that it should be installed by a certified person and that Drayton have told them that a certified person should have the special tool.

 

I've found a couple of old stock LP111 units, that look the same, but aren't hobbled with this service interval "feature", so for the sake of £20 or so I'll just bin this rubbish and fit another one; it's not worth the hassle of arguing about.  I'm still as angry as hell about it though, especially as there is no specific mention that the damned thing will stop working after a year unless a Drayton certified person resets it.

 

10 minutes ago, Triassic said:

Are these the codes ? http://www.homeautomationhub.com/content/boiler-control-using-urf

 

Sadly not, as the reset tool seems to use IR, rather than RF.  That seems clear from the reset instructions, that say that the reset unit has to be pointed at the front of the timer to change the settings in memory.

[Jeremy Harris]

5 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Can you record the IR sequence from 'the tool' and then replay it using a recording remote I wonder then share the sequence on the net and Drayton won't be able to change the sequence without updating the existing 'tool's. The sequence is unlikely to be hand shaken or anything is it although it may be copyright. 

 

 

I suspect this could be made to work, with a lot of work, as it's a one-way transmission.  It might use a rolling code, though.  Given the need for security, and the fact that rolling code chips are dirt cheap and readily available, I strongly suspect this is what the unit uses.  There is a reference I've read from Drayton that says that the reset tool cannot be cloned, so that does imply some level of protection.

 

I've ordered an old stock, pre-service interval bricking, version now, anyway, as for the sake of £20 it's not worth arguing about.  It is a useful lesson for anyone else looking to buy a programmer, though.  Check very carefully that it hasn't been hobbled by the manufacturer before you buy it!

Edited September 13, 2017 by JSHarris

[Jeremy Harris]

2 hours ago, dpmiller said:

are you even sure the reset device is terribly smart? Might try waving a magnet (or an electromagnet on AC) over the display while it's waiting to be zapped...

 

 

Sorry, missed this earlier.  According to the info I've been able to glean, the Drayton resetting tool uses a one-way infra red data link, like a TV remote control.  It is said to be resistant to cloning by Drayton, which suggests that it may use a rolling code, rather like car locking systems. 

 

I'll stick the old one on ebay, with a warning that it needs resetting, as I may get some of the money back.  It cost me about £40 a year ago, and I've just bought a "new, old stock" version of the same controller that doesn't have the service interval "feature" for the princely sum of £17.90, including postage.   Even if I only get a tenner from ebay for the old one the difference will be cheaper than the postage in trying to borrow the special tool from anyone that has it.

Edited September 13, 2017 by JSHarris

[joe90]

Ha, missed this thread and made the same mistake ?, again cheap on Ebay so not all the world. I also found an lp111 on Ebay that Jeremy found so will get that instead. Heads up everyone.

[ProDave]

11 minutes ago, joe90 said:

Ha, missed this thread and made the same mistake ?, again cheap on Ebay so not all the world. I also found an lp111 on Ebay that Jeremy found so will get that instead. Heads up everyone.

Don't tell me you bought the one Jeremy was selling?

[Jeremy Harris]

4 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Don't tell me you bought the one Jeremy was selling?

 

 

If anyone wants the Si version then they can have it for free, as it's no use to me, as it needs resetting.

 

Just PM me and I'll stick it in the post. 

[PeterW]

On 19/06/2018 at 09:32, JSHarris said:

 

 

If anyone wants the Si version then they can have it for free, as it's no use to me, as it needs resetting.

 

Just PM me and I'll stick it in the post. 

 

I may have an unlock code you can try .... ?

[Jeremy Harris]

8 hours ago, PeterW said:

 

I may have an unlock code you can try .... ?

 

 

Unfortunately it doesn't use a code, it has to be unlocked via an IR link from the resetting tool.  I think the tool is around £80 to £100 to buy, so not worth it for a single unit.  I replaced it with the non-Si version, which wasn't that expensive.  Ebay seems awash with cheap Si versions, perhaps because people buy them then realise that they brick themselves after a year.