Andehh Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 (edited) Ever since we moved to Octopus energy & could track the 30min usage I have noticed something using electricity at 3am. It is generally speaking 0.8 - 1kwh from 3 to 3.30am then sort of half that from 3.30 to 4am. Sometime it peaks to 1.4kwh and 700w other times the usage is several 100w both 30min periods. ALWAYS ONLY between 3am and 4am. We have MVHR, ASHP, A/C, Dish Washer, American Fridge, Neff Oven & Neff Microwave, couple of laptops, Washing machine, Water Softener, PV, lots of external lights (PIR controlled, but disabled at night), robot hoovers. Detached bungalow with own self installed supply. ASHP ran in anger during Octopus Cosy periods, usage shows it kicking in like clockwork every morning at 4am. Heatmiser shows the periods. MVHR can see its usage drop post showers as we settle into the night A/C - off with no timed periods set (would also notice via Heatmiser app nay room temp changes) Dish Washer - triple checked it is coming on when it should, always around 5am Washing Machine - triple checked it is coming on when it should, we dont use it that often on timed Ovens/Microwaves - I doubt it Water Softener - no way it would draw that much, though checked its regen during the day and nope Outside Lights - only consumer about 100w when on as LED American Fridge - I cant see it using that power Robot Hoover - cant see it using that power Other then setting an alarm and walking around the house.... can anyone think of anything the above appliances might be doing at 3am!?!? Welcome any thoughts.... Edited November 18, 2023 by Andehh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 (edited) Can you not turn individual things off for one night (going to bed till getting up) and see if it makes a difference? ( @SteamyTea had a fridge that used a lot of lecky and needed replacing). Edited November 18, 2023 by joe90 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 14 minutes ago, joe90 said: fridge that used a lot of lecky Yes I did. Took 3 days to work out is was burning about 3 kWh a day. 20 minutes ago, Andehh said: ASHP ran in anger during Octopus Cosy periods, usage shows it kicking in like clockwork every morning at 4am. Heatmiser shows the periods. Crank case heater maybe. Warms the pump up if it has been idle too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joth Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 ASHP used for DHW and for heating? DHW will be a fairly consistent load and could well be this. Space heating will obviously vary according to the weather. Also do you have an immersion heater on the ASHP? Maybe try isolating it. At very least I'd power the entire ashp off one night and check Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andehh Posted November 18, 2023 Author Share Posted November 18, 2023 (edited) DHW is for times periods per Cosy tariff, also DHW is cold in the morning so it isn't the water... Crank heater is an interesting one, I'll check external temps with the power usage. Would it heat the ashp even if its not being used? I presume heatmeiser/Samsung ashp has no comms for a pre warm function. Edit... Nope no relation to outside temp despite fluctuations below freezing up to 10 degrees. Even fridge freezer or normal appliance, for it to only ever start at 3am... Never any usage between 9pm and 3am when we are winding things down/going to bed. Edited November 18, 2023 by Andehh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 A crankcase heater is generally in the 50W so 50W/h or so. But if it's about 5 degs or below then and water temp has cooled within the heat pump, it may be doing antifreeze cycle of the heat pump, it starts the circulation pump and could also start the heat pump to input heat into the system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGrahamT21 Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 Fridge is my vote, doing a daily defrost cycle (assuming it’s frost free?) blurb from web: Most models will defrost for approximately 25 to 45 minutes, usually once or twice a day. You may hear water dripping or sizzling as it hits the heater. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billt Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 Our fridge freezer uses 260W for about 25 minutes to defrost, but it does it when it needs it which is about once a day but not on a fixed schedule. It's a possibility but several hundred watts for an hour or so sounds a lot for a fridge. if it is the FF I'd consider getting a more efficient one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGrahamT21 Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 54 minutes ago, billt said: Our fridge freezer uses 260W for about 25 minutes to defrost, but it does it when it needs it which is about once a day but not on a fixed schedule. It's a possibility but several hundred watts for an hour or so sounds a lot for a fridge. if it is the FF I'd consider getting a more efficient one. OP said it was an American fridge so could use a lot more than a normal FF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billt Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 Ours is what I would describe as an American fridge - 2 full height doors. Although a real American fridge would probably be twice the size! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlantication Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 Fridge isn't going to be consuming 3kW, even the most inefficient fridges will use less than a kW for defrost. It is a bit of a mystery as none of the appliances you brought up really fit the profile of the power being consumed. One thing I was wondering - do you have a PV diverter? If that's somehow malfunctioning that could explain the magnitude of the power draw, at least. Another thing to check would be what happened when the clocks went back? Did the ghost usage stay at the old schedule or update to the new? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 Make one of these. It will tell you how much power is being drawn and when. You can usually narrow down to what is causing it. Where about on the Atlantic coast are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 3am ? Sex toys for sure ☺️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shuff27 Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 Another possibility if it's happening regularly - Legionella boost setting for the ASHP? I've recently changed from Agile to Cosy for the heating use months - my ASHP was set by the installer to heat DHW from 3am to 4am so I changed that to an hour later to suit the Cosy tariff. But I was still getting a power spike once a week at 3am - I eventually realised that the Ecodan FTC6 controller had been set up to do the Legionella boost then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andehh Posted November 19, 2023 Author Share Posted November 19, 2023 (edited) Well, sat there between 3am and 3.45 this morning, aaaaand.... Nothing! (2 out of 2 morning monitors drawing a blank) Bought a couple of energy monitoring plugs. American fridge freezer (Samsung twin doors and big draw jobbie) did get glared at for a while with a defrost thing in mind.... Interesting to see it suggested above. It has an ice maker, G rated or something for effieincy... So it'll be the first thing to be plugged into a monitor. Legionnaires is turned off. No solar diverter Several AC units but I think if notice if one of them came on with a change in temp. It's occurred even with an outside temp of several degrees. Grrrrrrrr Edited November 19, 2023 by Andehh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andehh Posted November 19, 2023 Author Share Posted November 19, 2023 (edited) So on Thursday and Friday night, my phantom drain used nigh on exactly the same amount of power 1.07kWh (& 1.05kWh) from 3 to 3.30 then 0.65kWh (& 0.67kWh) between 3.30 and 4am. It's hard to imagine a scenerio where the power would be so evenly matched between two days, but happen entirely at random on whether it does it or not. ... But nothing last night per my above post. Edited November 19, 2023 by Andehh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 3 minutes ago, Andehh said: But nothing last night per my above post. It is just teasing you. Do you have kids in the house that may be using something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andehh Posted November 19, 2023 Author Share Posted November 19, 2023 (edited) Yes, but all very young! It's definitely mocking me.. My current process improvement to enable me to monitor from bed.... Edited November 19, 2023 by Andehh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 30 minutes ago, Andehh said: enable me to monitor from bed.... Can that be viewed via onlyfans? May help to pay the bills. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andehh Posted November 20, 2023 Author Share Posted November 20, 2023 16 hours ago, SteamyTea said: Can that be viewed via onlyfans? May help to pay the bills. It can...but only between the hours of 3am and 4am, and content is solely that of a very bleary eyed & frustrated man in his pants counting wattages! 😍 In other news..... Once again....I spent my night staring at the meter, and for a second time....the bloody energy demand did not materialise! House sat merrily at around 250w Two energy tracking plugs arrived this morning, which will target the American fridge freezer & dish washer as starters..... Ill update accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andehh Posted November 28, 2023 Author Share Posted November 28, 2023 Well, after 4 nights of sat next to the meter (nothing happening) then a couple nights where it did happen and I slept through it.....then £40 on appliance monitoring equipment..... FOUND IT!!! Somehow I had 'prehea / optimum start' enabled in our utility room zone, which is a zone which never really comes on due to plant room...with the warm cylinder, drying clothes etc it was also a room that isn't directly connected with external temperatures. Checking the heatmiser app for this room shows the preheating kicking on at 3am...ahead of 4am when all the heating zones really kicked in! On the bright side...at least I know Heatmiser has an optimum heat capability 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Andehh said: Somehow I had 'prehea / optimum start' enabled in our utility room zone What is that then, a resistance heater in the plumbing? 27 minutes ago, Andehh said: £40 on appliance monitoring equipment Shows the value of monitoring. Edited November 28, 2023 by SteamyTea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andehh Posted November 28, 2023 Author Share Posted November 28, 2023 (edited) Just a feature heatmiser offer! Edited November 28, 2023 by Andehh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 1 minute ago, Andehh said: Just a feature heatmiser offer So does it run the heat pump for an hour or more then, unless you lock it out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGrahamT21 Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 (edited) I think all the smart heating controls have this, mine is called early start, it basically uses historic room data plus the outside temperature from weather forecast to learn how early it needs to turn the heating on so that when your chosen schedule starts the room is at temperature. The heat miser version seems a little more basic than the Tado I’ve got where you have to input the amount of time. glad you found the culprit, knowing what I’m like that would have been proper doing my head in! Edited November 28, 2023 by MikeGrahamT21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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