Planning Committee

[Badger]

My planning application is going to be raised at the next planning committee for a decision due to the number of objections that have been raised by the neighbours. Has anyone got any experience of this and what actually happens? Thanks in advance.

[Jeremy Harris]

I guess you may know some of this stuff, but the basic rule is that you, and anyone that you can persuade to stand and speak on behalf of your development, will each get EXACTLY three minutes to state your case to the committee (and my experience is that they time it with a stop watch and just turn your mic off at the 3 minute point).

 

The decision is supposed to be wholly based around showing that the proposal does not contravene any planning policy or guidance, and, in theory, there is a presumption that all applications should be approved unless they can be proved to contravene policy or guidance.  However, as you can imagine, 99% of objectors know little about this, and so will waffle on about stuff that has no bearing at all on planning................

 

If you feel up to speaking on your own behalf, then I would very strongly suggest that you do, rather than get someone else to do it for you, and practice to get as much into your three minutes as possible.  Stressing that you wish to build your own home, that you are not a developer and then going on to show how the proposal complies with all planning policies and guidance, together with some little emotive points (in our case promising to plant some cherry trees to replace old ones that were planted as a part of the Coronation celebrations in the village, and were at the end of their life) may well get the committee on side.

 

Avoid trying to address negative comments made by objectors that are not valid planning considerations - they are a waste of your time, and the planning officer should pick those up when briefing the committee, anyway.  It helps if you can get a copy of the planning officers report to the committee well in advance.  If he/she is recommending refusal, then look at the reasons and consider withdrawing the application, addressing the reasons and resubmitting - it's free.

 

Finally, check how many supporters you can ask to speak on your behalf, and get hold of some, brief them carefully and make sure they are registered as speakers - this is important, as the committee will have a tight timetable and will often only allow registered speakers to present an argument.  If you feel that you may be on dodgy ground with regard to complying with planning policy or guidance, consider getting a planning consultant as one of the speakers.  They are often very good at making a case, but be aware that this is a double edged sword.  The committee may well have seen this particular planning officer many times before, and so may take less heed of what they say!

Edited September 2, 2017 by JSHarris

[MikeR]

Normally, both objectors and supporters (you?) will a have a certain number of mins (often as low as 5mins but check with your council) to state their case then the planning officer will say their piece (no restriction on how many mins!) and then the committee will discuss in depth. Any questions that they have will be directed to the planning officer and you will not have any further chance to speak I'm afraid. They will then take a vote. My advice is to speak yourself (rather than your agent) and to write down your speech and try to counter any of the objections that have been raised so far - practice reading it over and over again and time yourself to ensure that it doesn't over run because it has been known for them to cut you short if you take too long. If you do intend to speak register your intent with the committee's admin officer in advance of the day.

[Badger]

The planning officer who was dealing with the application did give me a favourable recommendation with the report for his boss but he has decided to take it to the next planning committee due to the objections, he did say his boss has looked over the application and is happy with the submission so hopefully there won't be any issues. The trials, tribulations and stresses of trying to build your own house!!!

[MikeR]

If it's going to committee then there should also be a site visit planned a week or two before the actual committee meeting - this too will also give you an opportunity to speak but objectors could also be there as well and they too could speak so be aware of this. The site visit is a great opportunity to physically point out certain aspects of your application rather than the committee members relying on a map.

[Jeremy Harris]

3 minutes ago, MikeR said:

If it's going to committee then there should also be a site visit planned a week or two before the actual committee meeting - this too will also give you an opportunity to speak but objectors could also be there as well and they too could speak so be aware of this. The site visit is a great opportunity to physically point out certain aspects of your application rather than the committee members relying on a map.

 

 

Not normally.  The majority of local authorities have a strict policy whereby planning committee members are not permitted to speak with applicants or objectors at site visits.  Here that rule is very rigidly enforced, with someone from the planning office being present top ensure that no words are exchanged between either applicant or objectors to any planning committee members.  Things can get a bit heated at times!

Edited September 2, 2017 by JSHarris

[Jeremy Harris]

9 minutes ago, Badger said:

The planning officer who was dealing with the application did give me a favourable recommendation with the report for his boss but he has decided to take it to the next planning committee due to the objections, he did say his boss has looked over the application and is happy with the submission so hopefully there won't be any issues. The trials, tribulations and stresses of trying to build your own house!!!

 

 

If the planning officers report is recommending approval, then pick out all the planning policies and guidance that it references and use them to reinforce the points that you make during your three minutes of fame.  In general, planning officer reports will consist of a sort of "question and response" format, when it comes to recommendations with regard to policy and guidance.  They may say something like, "planning policy XYZ states that development should not be permitted if conditions ABC apply, but in this case, those conditions do not apply for the following reasons XXXXXXXXXXXXX".  If you can pull out those elements, and amplify the  positive aspects, and make it clear that there is no basis in policy to refuse your application on that aspect, and repeat that through all the key points that the planning officer has made, that will help.

 

In theory, all the planning committee members should have read the planning officers recommendation before the meeting.  In practice you will find that many of them haven't bothered to, I expect.  It does no harm to reiterate the reasons why they cannot refuse your application, based on any specific planning policy point, if you have the time to do so.

[MikeR]

Yes, you're quite right - but it's my understanding that you're allowed to address the committee as a group but once you've had your say then you have to keep quiet and say no more. This is exactly what I did when my application went to committee. In addition you're also allowed to "follow" the committee back to the place place where they have their post site visit meeting and are allowed to address them once again. (This is little known and not widely advertised by your council but once again it's an opportunity to have your say)

Badger - I'd suggest you talk to the committee's admin person and ask him exactly what opportunities you're going to have to speak.

[Badger]

Will do Mike. Thabks all

[Jeremy Harris]

28 minutes ago, MikeR said:

Yes, you're quite right - but it's my understanding that you're allowed to address the committee as a group but once you've had your say then you have to keep quiet and say no more. This is exactly what I did when my application went to committee. In addition you're also allowed to "follow" the committee back to the place place where they have their post site visit meeting and are allowed to address them once again. (This is little known and not widely advertised by your council but once again it's an opportunity to have your say)

Badger - I'd suggest you talk to the committee's admin person and ask him exactly what opportunities you're going to have to speak.

 

 

It varies a bit from one LA to another, although the basic guidance to all LAs is the same, as to whether a group will be allowed to speak in a meeting, and there may be some discretion from the chairperson. Here they are not allowed to at all - I've been in a meeting where a group was physically expelled for trying to do so.

 

As for addressing any committee member about the application AFTER it has been notified as going to the committee, then it is not allowed, and may well be considered to be a serious failure to comply with the rules of impartiality.  The general principle is that any constituent can approach a councillor about a planning matter, before the application is formally referred to the planning committee.  Once that has happened, any constituent can still approach a councillor who is not a member of the planning committee to discuss the matter, but they must not approach a councillor who is actively considering the application except under controlled conditions where impartiality can be assured.

 

Failure to observe this protocol is grounds for appeal on the basis of a failure of process, and does happen.  The rules are in place to try to ensure that, once the planning committee are notified of an application that is going before them, they are duty bound to ensure that they allot exactly the same amount of time to hearing arguments in support of the application as they do to hearing arguments against the application.  This is all defined in legislation, although there are often cases where elected councillors ride roughshod over the law, for a host of reasons, ranging from ignorance to personal interest.

 

I can give an example where the regulations were breached for our own application, albeit at the pre-decision stage, where the application was still out for consultation.  Our plot had a chequered planning history, several refusals and an approval that was only obtained after appeal, with strict conditions.  There were many objections locally.  We didn't want to build what had been approved, so submitted a new application, anticipating a great deal of hassle.  The first hurdle was the Parish Council, that had raised 14 points of objection to the previous application that got through at appeal.  I spoke to the Parish Clerk, who warned me in words of one syllable that I was not permitted to utter a single word at the Parish Council meeting, as I was not a resident of the Parish and had no right to speak at all.  When our application came up, we were the only members of the public in the village hall.  I had prepared a scale model of our proposal, and was allowed to place it on the committee table.

 

The hearing of our application started with the chairman reading out the five previous applications, their reasons for refusal, and the last application where they Parish Council had raised 14 objections.  He read out each of these objections in turn.  At this point he was interrupted by a rather forceful lady councillor, who asked if the model on the table was the proposal.  The Parish Clerk confirmed it was, whereupon the lady looked closely at it, then looked out at us and asked if we were the applicants.  I said that I was afraid I was not permitted to talk to her, as it was against the rules.  The Parish Clerk read out the bit of regulation that confirmed this.  The lady councillor then made some sort of exclamation, said she thought this was ridiculous and was going to ask us some questions anyway, and how dare anyone try to stop her.  There followed an interesting discussion, which ended with the lady saying she could see no reason to object and she asked the chairman to record a recommendation that there were no objections.  Another councillor tried to speak, and the lady then said something like "Well, none of you object, do you?". whereupon there was a quick vote resulting in a unanimous decision that there would be no objection.  It was one of the funniest things I've seen happen, and was completely against the rules, but as none of the potential objectors in the village were present to see it they got away with it!

 

 

Edited September 2, 2017 by JSHarris

[Badger]

The main objector has actually apologised to me for objecting to my application as he thought we were related to the previous householder who used to live there and who he had an extremely fraught relationship with. I am going to try and see him tomorrow to see if he can withdraw his objection if that is at all possible.

[Jeremy Harris]

13 minutes ago, Badger said:

The main objector has actually apologised to me for objecting to my application as he thought we were related to the previous householder who used to live there and who he had an extremely fraught relationship with. I am going to try and see him tomorrow to see if he can withdraw his objection if that is at all possible.

 

 

Well worth doing, as in my experience a withdrawn objection is often perceived as tacit support.  However, the fact that the objection was based on the objectors relationship with the previous owner suggests that it would not have been a valid planning objection anyway, so should have been ignored.

[Gone West]

We went to committee and I spoke for three minutes. I also asked my local councillor to support my application and he spoke on my behalf as well. I hand delivered a document outlining what I was trying to achieve to each of the Planning Committee a week before the hearing. The only objectors I had were the Planning Dept. My application was passed unanimously much to the annoyance of the Head of Planning. I was not allowed to address the Planning Committee at the site meeting but I had a scale model on show and lots of photographs showing the affect my build would have on the surrounding area. At the site meeting members of the Committee asked me questions which I had to answer concisely.

[Badger]

1 hour ago, JSHarris said:

 

 

Well worth doing, as in my experience a withdrawn objection is often perceived as tacit support.  However, the fact that the objection was based on the objectors relationship with the previous owner suggests that it would not have been a valid planning objection anyway, so should have been ignored.

The objection is based on the nuisance and mess that was left by the previous house owner who built his own house and also the length of time that it took, the objections are not based on valid planning objections from what I can make out.

[Jeremy Harris]

1 minute ago, Badger said:

The objection is based on the nuisance and mess that was left by the previous house owner who built his own house and also the length of time that it took, the objections are not based on valid planning objections from what I can make out.

 

 

That seems pretty typical, I think.  Almost all the objections in the chequered planning history of our plot were invalid.  They ranged from expressions of concern that the someone's pumped sewerage system would become less reliable (when we were over 100m away and proposing to fit a treatment plant, and that had always been the case, right from the very first application) to overlooking someone's back garden around 60m away and across the other side of a lane.  There were lots of objections relating to the site being developed purely for profit, which may have been the case for the original land owner, but isn't a valid planning concern. 

 

I think people get very emotive when it comes to objecting to nearby developments, and the majority of objectors don't take the time to read up on planning policy and what might be valid reasons for objection.  The only valid objection regarding our plot was concern about the highways safety of the originally proposed entrance.  It was a daft idea for whoever put in the first proposal to place the entrance in a potentially dangerous, and impractical, location, but that was sorted out during the consultation phase by the highways officer, so by the time we bought the plot the highways issue had been resolved.

[Badger]

3 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

 

 

That seems pretty typical, I think.  Almost all the objections in the chequered planning history of our plot were invalid.  They ranged from expressions of concern that the someone's pumped sewerage system would become less reliable (when we were over 100m away and proposing to fit a treatment plant, and that had always been the case, right from the very first application) to overlooking someone's back garden around 60m away and across the other side of a lane.  There were lots of objections relating to the site being developed purely for profit, which may have been the case for the original land owner, but isn't a valid planning concern. 

 

I think people get very emotive when it comes to objecting to nearby developments, and the majority of objectors don't take the time to read up on planning policy and what might be valid reasons for objection.  The only valid objection regarding our plot was concern about the highways safety of the originally proposed entrance.  It was a daft idea for whoever put in the first proposal to place the entrance in a potentially dangerous, and impractical, location, but that was sorted out during the consultation phase by the highways officer, so by the time we bought the plot the highways issue had been resolved.

The highways issue was exactly the same for mine which has been resolved with highways at the consultation stage as well!! As I mentioned the person who built the first house on the land had the same issues with the neighbours but none showed up for the planning committee hearing.

[Ferdinand]

4 hours ago, MikeR said:

Normally, both objectors and supporters (you?) will a have a certain number of mins (often as low as 5mins but check with your council) to state their case then the planning officer will say their piece (no restriction on how many mins!) and then the committee will discuss in depth. Any questions that they have will be directed to the planning officer and you will not have any further chance to speak I'm afraid. They will then take a vote. My advice is to speak yourself (rather than your agent) and to write down your speech and try to counter any of the objections that have been raised so far - practice reading it over and over again and time yourself to ensure that it doesn't over run because it has been known for them to cut you short if you take too long. If you do intend to speak register your intent with the committee's admin officer in advance of the day.

 

I think ours is 3 minutes, and it is one or two speakers for each side - objectors have to select one.

 

If you have not won the argument in advance of committee you will not win there. It is about reminding them of your case - you cannot build a substantive argument in 3 or 10 minutes. That should have been done in your Application and in conversation with Councillors, Objectors and the Planning Officer first.

 

However if you annoy them they or insult objectors they may get narked.

 

Do not waste time on peripheral matters which are not material to planning, beyond a 5 second dismissal. That is for Officers to educate councillors and to be swatted on Appeal.

 

So it can be important to have a Councillor on your side, as it is stand up, speak up, shut up - so if anyone spouts gibberish you cannot correct it.

Also write to all Committee Councillors a few days in advance (or hand deliver) with a *concise* statement of your case. If it is more than a couple of hundred words they will not have time to read it. You should have already written to them in advance of that. If you have you could write individually composed letters to tickle their predilections and hot buttons.

 

I had my agent speak for me, but it was an intricate argument based on no Local Plan (for some reason the Local Plan dog's breakfast had been on the front page of the local paper a couple of time in the months before) and National Policy presumption to develop. And it was politicised so we expected to lose.And we had Lib Dems on the case using us as a whipping post to place them at the head of a crowd.

 

Ferdinand

 

 

 

Edited September 2, 2017 by Ferdinand

[joe90]

Not wishing to be negative but I took our 3rd application to appeal and a senior councillor supported us. At the site visit a councillor asked me what the objections were and I explained about one neighbour who objected to everything localy and had no valid reason for objection and the planning officers objection on dubious grounds ( in my opinion). on the arrival of the other members he shuffled off and during negotiations among themselves I heard him saying how our proposal was fit for the site, and others seemed to agree with him.

 

At the council hearing however my wife had her 3minutes, my planning consultant had her 3minutes, the neighbour had his three minutes where he told numerous un truths and when I tried to point out his "errors" was told I had no right of reply. We were voted against and lost our appeal completely, not one councillor, including the one that supported us initially would look me in the eye. ( I have heard on the grapevine since that the council were "got at" and told to vote against us)

 

The good news-: I took our appeal to the Secretary of State and she stated our application was very fit for purpose and overturned the council, she also stated in quite blunt terms that the planning office were not abiding by their own rules, got fundamental information wrong and could not over rule the ecologist in her recommendation regarding bats on site.

 

I still may take our case to the local press " is the  Torridge district council planning department fit for purpose?".

 

and they all lived happily ever after ?

 

[Temp]

When you get your 3min to speak don't let members of the committee interrupt you. Start by introducing your self an state you are happy to answer questions at the end of your 3 mins. 

 

[Badger]

Had my 3 mins and finally got planning permission thank god for that. There was no objectors so it was pretty straight forward. Thanks everyone

[vivienz]

Well done. 

[Temp]

Congratulations!

 

Next stop the CIL Exemption.

[nod]

Yes well done 

you must be relieved 

[Badger]

13 hours ago, Temp said:

Congratulations!

 

Next stop the CIL Exemption.

Whats CIL exemption?

[PeterW]

If the council apply a community infrastructure levy or CIL charge to your approval then as a self builder you can claim exemption. 

 

The key is not starting anything on the build until the paperwork process has fully completed.