Vaillant ashp (my battle with).

[zoothorn]

@-rick- Many thanks again for your suggestions:
 

All taken on board/ redoing the upstairs plasterboard especially etc. Understood. A big job I can't quite plunge into right now, February etc. But food for thought!
 

And @Big Jimbo for the holes / foam idea: this is the most feasable idea, for me, & as I don't neccessarily need these bedrooms warm, only priority is improving the big room below.
 

I'll put a line under this thread, having been a conclusion to my Vaillant battle, now me drifting way off topic.
 

Fantastic help, as per usual.

 

Zoothorn

 

 

 

 

[-rick-]

Been a bit busy today, just looked at the earlier posts. Sorry I clearly got the build up of the upstairs rooms wrong. If it's plasterboard on dabs on dodgy cavity wall then the plasterboard tent point is even more valid.

 

One of the reasons I suggest dealing with those rooms first is if cold air is getting into the structure from there it's going to make heating the downstairs harder. Loads of houses have cold concrete floors and while they may not be the most comfortable they can generally be heated which makes me think that dealing with the floor should be lower down on the priority list until you have the ability to heat better than now.

 

Whatever you do, if the heating system is running off a thermostat located in a warm room or it continues only operating for a few hours a day your house wont be warm unless you do an awful lot of work (bringing the house to modern standards). But, if basic air sealing is done and plasterboard tent possibilities are eliminated then what you have should be able to warm the space if the actually running (ie, the thermostat and timer are all saying 'provide heat'). Can you confirm where the thermostat is? If it needs moving you should start thinking about that and also put some time into working out how to change the schedule.

 

Wish you the best of luck dealing with this.

 

[zoothorn]

19 hours ago, -rick- said:

Been a bit busy today, just looked at the earlier posts. Sorry I clearly got the build up of the upstairs rooms wrong. If it's plasterboard on dabs on dodgy cavity wall then the plasterboard tent point is even more valid.

 

One of the reasons I suggest dealing with those rooms first is if cold air is getting into the structure from there it's going to make heating the downstairs harder. Loads of houses have cold concrete floors and while they may not be the most comfortable they can generally be heated which makes me think that dealing with the floor should be lower down on the priority list until you have the ability to heat better than now.

 

Whatever you do, if the heating system is running off a thermostat located in a warm room or it continues only operating for a few hours a day your house wont be warm unless you do an awful lot of work (bringing the house to modern standards). But, if basic air sealing is done and plasterboard tent possibilities are eliminated then what you have should be able to warm the space if the actually running (ie, the thermostat and timer are all saying 'provide heat'). Can you confirm where the thermostat is? If it needs moving you should start thinking about that and also put some time into working out how to change the schedule.

 

Wish you the best of luck dealing with this.

 

Hi Rick,

 

very valid points- all taken into consideration. If I -could- just block the perimeter loft air from hitting the main room ceiling edges, by injecting foam.. I'd think that's a logical 1st step. Evaluate. If no difference felt, then the whole hog wall renovation of the 2 bedrooms needs to be considered.

 

The tent analogy.. still eludes me! Nevermind. I'll put a line under this cold ingress problem, for now. Nearing winter's end anyway.

 

-----

 

Back to Vaillant success. Or not..

Erm.. spanner in the works: new Monobloc (Arotherm Plus is the exact wording description I'm informed today by them) system faulty already. 3 weeks that took.
 

No HW last evening, no HW this morning. Otherwise rads working as normal. Engineer visit booked Monday. No fault code showing up on little Thermostat controller screen, nor on the 'Interface' box between cylinder & outside HPump box.

 

These things, are SO fallible, you need a lifetime warranty to be able to live normally-reassured with them. I have only a 2 year warranty.. & I'm panicking about the cost of engineer fix visits after the 2 year mark, already now just 3 weeks in.

 

Zoot

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 16:25 by zoothorn

[-rick-]

1 hour ago, zoothorn said:

very valid points- all taken into consideration. If I -could- just block the perimeter loft air from hitting the main room ceiling edges, by injecting foam.. I'd think that's a logical 1st step. Evaluate. If no difference felt, then the whole hog wall renovation of the 2 bedrooms needs to be considered.

 

I'm no expert on any of this and I know you've been back and forth over this in the past with others who know more than so I doubt I'm saying anything new but my thought is that you need to think hollistically. Trying to warm the sitting room up when the other rooms are cold is a losing proposition. Your loft insulation is above the bedrooms not above the sitting room. If the bedrooms are cold the heat from the sitting room will rise and get lost in the cold bedroom. To put it another way think about stopping the loft air from getting behind the bedroom walls, not just at the junction to the sitting room.

 

2 hours ago, zoothorn said:

The tent analogy.. still eludes me! Nevermind. I'll put a line under this cold ingress problem, for now. Nearing winter's end anyway.

 

Understand, but do try and come back to it during the summer. Try to make this the last year you can see your breath inside during the winter.

 

1 hour ago, zoothorn said:

Erm.. spanner in the works: new Monobloc (Arotherm Plus is the exact wording description I'm informed today by them) system faulty already. 3 weeks that took.
 

No HW last evening, no HW this morning. Otherwise rads working as normal. Engineer visit booked Monday. No fault code showing up on little Thermostat controller screen, nor on the 'Interface' box between cylinder & outside HPump box.

 

Honestly, this sounds like a blessing in disguise. You were left with a system you didn't know how to control. While the engineer is there get them to show you how to adjust the system (temperature set point and the timer).

 

If there are no fault codes the issue is likely fairly simple.

 

1 hour ago, zoothorn said:

These things, are SO fallible, you need a lifetime warranty to be able to live normally-reassured with them. I have only a 2 year warranty.. & I'm panicking about the cost of engineer fix visits after the 2 year mark, already now just 3 weeks in.

 

I think the experience of people on here are that heatpumps are just as reliable if not more so than modern gas boilers (both full of electronics nowdays). Everything can get a fault, especially if something was missed around install, but once setup correctly and as long as serviced regularly it should be fine. My main concern is that if the system is running flat out and not getting any heat into the place then thats way outside it's design parameters and could cause excessive wear. So if you want the heat pump to last then this summer is definitely the time to put some effort into attacking the issues in the house.

 

 

[zoothorn]

2 minutes ago, -rick- said:

 

I'm no expert on any of this and I know you've been back and forth over this in the past with others who know more than so I doubt I'm saying anything new but my thought is that you need to think hollistically. Trying to warm the sitting room up when the other rooms are cold is a losing proposition. Your loft insulation is above the bedrooms not above the sitting room. If the bedrooms are cold the heat from the sitting room will rise and get lost in the cold bedroom. To put it another way think about stopping the loft air from getting behind the bedroom walls, not just at the junction to the sitting room.

 

 

Understand, but do try and come back to it during the summer. Try to make this the last year you can see your breath inside during the winter.

 

 

Honestly, this sounds like a blessing in disguise. You were left with a system you didn't know how to control. While the engineer is there get them to show you how to adjust the system (temperature set point and the timer).

 

If there are no fault codes the issue is likely fairly simple.

 

 

I think the experience of people on here are that heatpumps are just as reliable if not more so than modern gas boilers (both full of electronics nowdays). Everything can get a fault, especially if something was missed around install, but once setup correctly and as long as serviced regularly it should be fine. My main concern is that if the system is running flat out and not getting any heat into the place then thats way outside it's design parameters and could cause excessive wear. So if you want the heat pump to last then this summer is definitely the time to put some effort into attacking the issues in the house.

 

 

That's another good point Rick. And another following that too.

 

Yup could be a summer project, to address the upstairs bedrooms. But my sense, that is you do simply get this from living here/ & a few exceptions houses are just 'impossibly cold'.. is the the vast majority of the cold ingress is UP & IN from the walls.
 

Like you point to, I will never be aiming to run the HP on flat out. The rads are hotter now, yes, but the installer (trained up by Vaillant, & used by Vaillant) said this Monobloc os just able to do this higher rads output. So I assume the rads are not running flat out, but just set "medium" currently.

 

I'll only ever be able to use two blocks of heat, 7-9am & 6-8pm. And the setback temp at 12*C. So that setting is surely on the 'easy HPump workload' side of operation, not straining it at all. Honestly, I just never expected, nor do I ever expect, this HeatPump (or any HP) to be able to warm this cottage. It's not designed for it. They wanted to pull out & not install it due to U calculations or whatever the thing's called, which they did here & found it so low as to be totally unsuitable for a HP.

 

But nevertheless, I do expect to be able to get hot water. In the morning, 2 hours after it's meant to have done it's 'HW create period' (as I call it as Ive no other way to describe what on earth to call this 1 hour HW period) of 1 hour 9-10 am. And this is exactly what I had for 3 weeks too & what Ive always had, producing very HW... until it failed to, today.

 

I find them unbelievably complicated. I can't understand a word the engineer, or installer gabbles on about. So damn fast. Not a word. All I can do, is ask the installer to "please just set it to medium/ all of it". And keep my fingers x'd it keeps working. But the number of callouts of the Vaillant engineers, to fix this, fix that, no HW, no water pressure, was so numerous & extensive on the last system (that's totally separate to the noise issue plaguing me).. that I'm just not surprised the new one's failed in 3 weeks.
 

As soon as the winter's out I will turn the damn thing off. I can live with no HW, having a shower (that works- & I installed that too!), & never using any hot tap ever. 
 

Thanks Zoot

[-rick-]

2 hours ago, zoothorn said:

But my sense, that is you do simply get this from living here/ & a few exceptions houses are just 'impossibly cold'.. is the the vast majority of the cold ingress is UP & IN from the walls.

 

Houses that can't be heated exist but the reason they are like that is that they have problems and these problems can be fixed. As we've discussed already, houses that are relatively well sealed from outside air blowing the heat away can be heated. The only question is whether the cost of heating them is economical. So far you haven't got to the point where you can make that decision and I think you need to get to that point before giving up.

 

2 hours ago, zoothorn said:

Like you point to, I will never be aiming to run the HP on flat out. The rads are hotter now, yes, but the installer (trained up by Vaillant, & used by Vaillant) said this Monobloc os just able to do this higher rads output. So I assume the rads are not running flat out, but just set "medium" currently.

 

I doubt that's a good description. The hotter the heatpump runs the radiators the less efficient it will be. I'm sure he set the temperature high because your house seemed cold and he thought it was what was required. It certainly would be required if only running the heating for a few hours a day but running the heatpump for longer at a lower temperature can be less costly than running one at high temperatures for shorter.

 

2 hours ago, zoothorn said:

I'll only ever be able to use two blocks of heat, 7-9am & 6-8pm. And the setback temp at 12*C.

 

No thats wrong. You need to get that changed, you can change those setting to run the heatpump as much as your want and I very much doubt that running it as above will result in anything other than wasting money and no real feeling of warmth.

 

In a house like yours, it's likely you need to keep the internal temperature of the building fairly stable because of the amount of energy it takes to change the temperature is immense. It's why I suggested being ready at the end of summer with the heating set to never let the internal temperature drop below a certain point. At least for a while so you can work out how much it costs to do so.*

 

2 hours ago, zoothorn said:

So that setting is surely on the 'easy HPump workload' side of operation, not straining it at all.

 

The exact opposite in many ways. You are asking the HP to work at maximum output for those 2 hours then turn off. Heatpumps ideally like to run continuously and a relatively low output.

 

Basically you are asking a marathon runner to compete in 100m sprints.

 

2 hours ago, zoothorn said:

Honestly, I just never expected, nor do I ever expect, this HeatPump (or any HP) to be able to warm this cottage. It's not designed for it. They wanted to pull out & not install it due to U calculations or whatever the thing's called, which they did here & found it so low as to be totally unsuitable for a HP.

 

Do you have a copy of those calculations? Would be good to see them. I tend to agree that it's a big ask for a 9kw heatpump in your space especially if you want warm (>20C) rooms. However, given the work you've already done plus a bit more this summer I do think the heatpump should be able to keep your space warmer than it has been. Maybe it's only capable of maintaining 17C or even 16C when it's really cold outside but thats still much better than what you have now if you can see your breath inside. But the key to making this happen is to make the heatpumps job as easy as possible and that means not letting the building go cold in the first place.

 

2 hours ago, zoothorn said:

I find them unbelievably complicated. I can't understand a word the engineer, or installer gabbles on about. So damn fast. Not a word. All I can do, is ask the installer to "please just set it to medium/ all of it". And keep my fingers x'd it keeps working.

 

This is something you really need to confront not run away from. At minimum you need to know how to turn the heating on / off manually and adjust the temperature. I had a quick look and it's only a few button presses. Ideally you'd also know how to adjust the timer.

 

Best advice for how to get this from the engineer is to say something along the lines of 'I really struggle with technical stuff like this can you show me how to turn the heating on and off', then when they try and press the buttons say 'no, can you let me drive, just tell me what to press'. Then you build up the muscle memory and can go at your speed rather than let them do that.

 

If dealing with the timer is too difficult I would at least want to know how to switch between timer and 'always on' (or 'always off').

 

2 hours ago, zoothorn said:

But the number of callouts of the Vaillant engineers, to fix this, fix that, no HW, no water pressure, was so numerous & extensive on the last system (that's totally separate to the noise issue plaguing me).. that I'm just not surprised the new one's failed in 3 weeks.

 

This is concerning, you don't have the best of luck. Hopefully, things improve from here.

 

2 hours ago, zoothorn said:

As soon as the winter's out I will turn the damn thing off. I can live with no HW, having a shower (that works- & I installed that too!), & never using any hot tap ever. 

 

That's very defeatist and I do understand the feeling, it's been a long journey for you. If you have the conversation with the engineer as described above you should come away able to switch just the heating off while leaving hot water on. In anycase, if the temperature is set to something like 17/18C then theres no real need to turn it off at all. During the summer the heating just wont come on because the temperature won't drop enough to trigger it.

 

Plus, if something else is wrong best to find out about it during the summer when it's warm, not when you are wanting the heat when it's cold.

 

Edit to add: * I know the old system was set to be always on at 17C and you also had no luck with the stove on for long stretches. So I definitely see the need to make some improvements (and also make sure the thermostat is located correctly), but with the work you've done already I think you are not far away from where you need to be.

Edited Wednesday at 21:22 by -rick-

[zoothorn]

@-rick- I appreciate what you say here. And most kind to think from my pov as much as you are doing.

 

But I do find some opposing sort of opinion, if I may: the only time Ive ever said to myself 'ooh I can actually feel a bit of warmth! I can barely believe it! Warmth in my cottage?!' is since this new Monobloc's been in for the 3 weeks. Doing it's 2-hour block of rads on periods. That's the only time, in the last 5 years Ive actually noticed some warmth from them, enough to get a modicum of comfort.

 

So to say to me, no I have this present setting wrong, that I have to turn the system output down & run it longer instead (which is I believe how I/ or rather someone else set the prior Split HP system to run: it was on more continuously, but the rads weren't nearly as hot) & as a consequence, I'll not feel my bit of warmth, Is.. well, it's just counterintuitive, it's taking my bit of warmth, away from me. I can't see how I could rationally make that decision. When I wake up, last 3 weeks, I'm not stepping from duvet into a freezing cold room. It's not say over 16*C, no, but I'm not noticing cold immediately as I'm so used to here for 10 years. That's a huge change. Even for just a block of 2 hours.. it's like a mini luxury for me.
 

Honestly Rick as Ive said, I've only used the HP as a HW source. It's just not meant to reside in such a dwelling. And I feel grateful for the free cylinder. But iteasy to see they're designed for Scandi timber homes, having big insulation as priority in floors/ walls/ ceilings. I can't expect it to work here in a stone cottage sat upon cold clay with these slate & cold mud walls, honestly, I just can't. And I dont blame it for not working here as it's designed to at all.
 

But I do need it to give me HW. Because it's impossibly cold in my tiny bathroom for 6 if not 8 months of the year to have a shower (even with it's towel-rail HP rad on). So I -have- to have baths. It's this bathroom, & adjacent kitchen, which are the most uncomfortably cold rooms. They pip the main old big room! It's barking mad the way this house is cold. Sometimes it's noticeably mild outside in the air, & when I nip to the bathroom, I can see my breath. It was 16*C on my iPad in my area outside in autumn I recall, & felt like it too, mild, then I go to pee.. & I can see my breath. THAT's what it is often like here. it's bonkers cold. Irrationally cold. Completely, unusually, cold. So imagine the bathroom when it's 0*C outside!! No HP can be expected to input heat into such a bathroom. Like the cloying wet atmosphere, the cold is & I'm not even exaggerating, like an huge enemy entity.

 

Thanks, Zoot

Edited Wednesday at 23:15 by zoothorn

[Dillsue]

9 hours ago, zoothorn said:

@-rick- 

Honestly Rick as Ive said, I've only used the HP as a HW source. It's just not meant to reside in such a dwelling. And I feel grateful for the free cylinder. But iteasy to see they're designed for Scandi timber homes, having big insulation as priority in floors/ walls/ ceilings. I can't expect it to work here in a stone cottage sat upon cold clay with these slate & cold mud walls, honestly, I just can't. And I dont blame it for not working here as it's designed to at all.

Did you read the article on the stone church heated sucessfully with a heat pump?

 

If you accept the basic physics principle that a correctly designed and operated HP system will heat any space then you might be able to work through the issues you've got and get your place warmed up

[-rick-]

11 hours ago, zoothorn said:

So to say to me, no I have this present setting wrong, that I have to turn the system output down & run it longer instead (which is I believe how I/ or rather someone else set the prior Split HP system to run: it was on more continuously, but the rads weren't nearly as hot) & as a consequence, I'll not feel my bit of warmth, Is.. well, it's just counterintuitive, it's taking my bit of warmth, away from me. I can't see how I could rationally make that decision. When I wake up, last 3 weeks, I'm not stepping from duvet into a freezing cold room. It's not say over 16*C, no, but I'm not noticing cold immediately as I'm so used to here for 10 years. That's a huge change. Even for just a block of 2 hours.. it's like a mini luxury for me.

 

Ok thats great to hear (not sure you said that before) and thanks for highlighting this. It's revealed to me my sloppy language, I'm sorry for that. When I said 'it's wrong' I was mainly referring to the system only being on 4 hours a day. I think it needs to be on longer so you have more warmth. I'm not proposing lowering the radiator temp in the short term.

 

In the long term (after you've made some more improvements to your property and you've been able to maintain a better temperature) it would be good to look again at the temperature of the radiators. Once the room is warm, you won't need to feel the heat from the radiators any more to feel comfortable and then you can start tuning for efficiency.

 

11 hours ago, zoothorn said:

Honestly Rick as Ive said, I've only used the HP as a HW source. It's just not meant to reside in such a dwelling. And I feel grateful for the free cylinder. But iteasy to see they're designed for Scandi timber homes, having big insulation as priority in floors/ walls/ ceilings. I can't expect it to work here in a stone cottage sat upon cold clay with these slate & cold mud walls, honestly, I just can't. And I dont blame it for not working here as it's designed to at all.

 

Modern heatpumps can support a property like yours. It's a myth they can't. It's possible the one you have is a bit too small and it seems likely that you need to make a few more improvements to get it working in your situation but it's very much doable with a little thought and care. @Dillsue has highlighted similar examples.

 

11 hours ago, zoothorn said:

But I do need it to give me HW. Because it's impossibly cold in my tiny bathroom for 6 if not 8 months of the year to have a shower (even with it's towel-rail HP rad on). So I -have- to have baths. It's this bathroom, & adjacent kitchen, which are the most uncomfortably cold rooms. They pip the main old big room! It's barking mad the way this house is cold. Sometimes it's noticeably mild outside in the air, & when I nip to the bathroom, I can see my breath. It was 16*C on my iPad in my area outside in autumn I recall, & felt like it too, mild, then I go to pee.. & I can see my breath.

 

If it's colder inside than it is outside, are you opening the windows to try and get some warmer air from the outside? (not during your bath but before and definitely after to clear the moisture)

 

The problem you have is that your building has a lot of heavy solid materials in the structure. These take a long time to heat up and cool down. The key to living comfortably with them is to stop them cooling down in the first place as trying to warm them up quickly will lead nowhere. Clearly your bathroom has got cold and once cold a towel rail isn't going to be able to compete with the raditors emitting cold that are the walls.

 

As a temporary measure while you explore the improvements already discussed, it might be worth considering abandoning trying to heat the space and focus on just heating you. A good way to do this is radiative (infrared) heating panels. One of those pointed directly at you while sitting in the sitting room will likely make you feel a lot warmer and use less energy than running the heatpump. Not so good for making you feel a bit warm when you get up in the morning, but maybe an idea for evenings.

 

https://www.toolstation.com/tristar-smart-infrared-panel-heater/p78401

(not a recommendation just an example)

 

Still, I think you can do better than just heating yourself if you can prepare well this summer.

[SteamyTea]

This heat pump installation is going to cost a fortune to run. The CoP is going to be just a little over 1 I suspect.

All quite unnecessary as it is down to how it is being operated (or inappropriately operated).

Trouble is, all the things that Zoot is saying, is just a repeat conversation from 3 years ago.

Repeating the same mistake while expecting different results is commonly known as the definition of insanity.

[Big Jimbo]

Hate to say you are right @SteamyTea, but you are right.

[-rick-]

18 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

This heat pump installation is going to cost a fortune to run. The CoP is going to be just a little over 1 I suspect.

 

I was thinking CoP 2/2.5 rather than 1 but no doubt the system is not being used optimally and will cost a lot for very little when with a relatively small amount of effort it could likely work quite well. However, zoot is currently living in conditions that would displease a Victorian and it's a major physical and mental health hazard so in my book it's worth trying to make progress.

[marshian]

I'm trying to help a friend with mental health issues - he's been living on his own in a house with no heating working over winter (I wasn't aware of this till I visited) - surprising how quickly he's gone downhill - it's a 25 year old house but no real fire or wood burner to revert to like an older property. when I visited it was actually warmer outside than inside.

 

I'm not actually sure what is wrong with it but I'm going to try to get it fixed (providing the gas hasn't been cut off which is always a possibility!!)

[zoothorn]

On 19/02/2026 at 17:03, SteamyTea said:

This heat pump installation is going to cost a fortune to run. The CoP is going to be just a little over 1 I suspect.

All quite unnecessary as it is down to how it is being operated (or inappropriately operated).

Trouble is, all the things that Zoot is saying, is just a repeat conversation from 3 years ago.

Repeating the same mistake while expecting different results is commonly known as the definition of insanity.

Sorry but this is sanctamonius ST.

 

My bathroom is tiny. It could only accommodate a small chrome towel rail. It has zero insulation, bar some loft fluff/ doubling up this too, made no noticeable difference.

 

I've run the old HP at a continuous setting, with medium warm rads. And I've run this new HP at 2x blocks of heating periods, with higher rads.

 

The bathroom was freezing cold before, most often seeing your breath & never one iota of warmth felt. The bathroom is also similarly freezing cold, wit( the new HP.

 

This prooves, your/ anyone else's theory that "He's not running the HP correct, if he did so, the bathroom would have some warmth felt" absolute BS. Utter twaddle.

 

The bathroom, is freezing cold, because SO much cold is winning against little heat. It is that simple. It is that blindingly obvious. Whether you have knowledge, & that I don't have as much as you, or not. It is BLINDINGLY that obvious, why it's freezing. THE STRUCTURE --NOT-- FKN ME OK!!

 

If a bathroom is built like mine is, with zero insulation under the floor, zero insulation in the walls, built onto one old original freezing cold thick stone wall, north-facing, & doesn't have the wall area for anything bigger than a fancy towel rail.. it WILL be freezing cold. It hasn't a hope of being warm. It has never, ever, once ever been warm. Not even with a fan heater on almost continuously.

 

I cannot stand this ganging up. With others all chiming in with the likes. It's mild bullying. And no help whatsoever either.

 

You can't offer help?? then why post at all-? to glean a few likes to massage an ego is that the reason?

 

Enough. Zoot

 

 

Edited 9 hours ago by zoothorn

[zoothorn]

10 hours ago, -rick- said:

 

I was thinking CoP 2/2.5 rather than 1 but no doubt the system is not being used optimally and will cost a lot for very little when with a relatively small amount of effort it could likely work quite well. However, zoot is currently living in conditions that would displease a Victorian and it's a major physical and mental health hazard so in my book it's worth trying to make progress.

Again, blaming me for the operation of the HP, rather than accepting some houses... are just impossibly cold.

 

I said before Rick, I ran the old HP at a continuous setting way. I remember it going on & off, the rads dipping on & off, all day. 
Was this situation cause for my bathroom, kitchen, main room to notice an iota of warmth? No. Never. Not even for 5 minutes, in these 3 main useage rooms, in 5 years of running that HP, the way you keep saying it's best to run it. Why was it set like this? I've no idea: I presume the installer did so innitially. I never changed it. Freezing damn cold. YOUR chosen way of operation.
 

The ONLY time Ive felt a bit of warmth, is with the new HP running at a non-optimal way. Why was it set like so (did I choose this? No). Because the recent installer set it the new HP to run like so. I never changed it to this setting. 
 

If it's running at an alarmingly high cost way, currently, then I will have to change it. Beacause I cannot afford to run it so. But it is NOT my choice, the way both systems, were set. They are too complicated for me to set them. I say as much at the time of install, & ask the guy to do what he thinks best. 

 

[[I never expected to feel any warmth either. I knew a HP is totally incorrect for here. Hence I only got it for the cylinder. I've been proven entirely correct that at whatever setting, optimally or not, a 9kW HP hasn't a hope in HELL of providing heat, in this cottage. Proven correct. I mean it's like knowing your own body isn't it.. YOU are the one who best knows it, NOT NOT NOT neccessarily, the doctor with the pHD!!]]

 

Thanks, Zoot

 

 

 

 

[-rick-]

24 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Again, blaming me for the operation of the HP, rather than accepting some houses... are just impossibly cold.

 

Firstly, not blaming you at all. You've relied on others to set them up (both times) and I'm not convinced either was done in a way that will fully work for you.

 

There is plenty of evidence from other people with similar houses that these houses can be heated, physics says they can be heated. The only question is whether it's economical, which is why I'm trying to help you have another run at addressing this long standing issue. I know you've been around and around this issue and I know you are getting frustrated but the goal of being warm is worth some persistence.

 

24 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

I said before Rick, I ran the old HP at a continuous setting way. I remember it going on & off, the rads dipping on & off, all day. 
Was this situation cause for my bathroom, kitchen, main room to notice an iota of warmth? No. Never. Not even for 5 minutes, in these 3 main useage rooms, in 5 years of running that HP, the way you keep saying it's best to run it. Why was it set like this? I've no idea: I presume the installer did so innitially. I never changed it. Freezing damn cold. YOUR chosen way of operation.

 

From what you've said it wasn't running as I propose at all. If the room is below the desired temperature then the rads should be on pretty much continuously (except when the hot water is being heated). The fact you noticed them regularly going on and off suggests things weren't working correctly. I've asked a couple of times where the thermostat is. I suspect the most likely reason for them going on / off is that the thermostat is located in the warmest part of the house so the system is stopping because it thinks things are warm enough. If not that, then there are other possibiilties.

 

24 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

If it's running at an alarmingly high cost way, currently, then I will have to change it. Beacause I cannot afford to run it so. But it is NOT my choice, the way both systems, were set. They are too complicated for me to set them. I say as much at the time of install, & ask the guy to do what he thinks best. 

 

I doubt as it's currently set up (4 hours a day) it will be costing you more than the other system on 24 hours a day. If you set the current system to run 24 hours a day then it will likely cost more than the previous system because the water temperature is set higher but this is all adjustable and can be looked at so no need to panic. I do think you are not getting value for money out of the system as you are still cold and do think it's possible to do better.

 

24 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

[[I never expected to feel any warmth either. I knew a HP is totally incorrect for here. Hence I only got it for the cylinder. I've been proven entirely correct that at whatever setting, optimally or not, a 9kW HP hasn't a hope in HELL of providing heat, in this cottage.

 

Earlier, I did a quick calc based on some Scottish government research for buildings with thick solid walls like yours. That calc suggests your heatpump is likely just enough to keep things warm in your place except during the coldest few days of the year. It was only very approximate because I don't know that much about your place, but the house is not huge and has a modern extension which helps limit energy needs.

 

24 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Proven correct.

 

I don't share your confidence in this, there is some evidence supporting your view but it's not conclusive. There is also evidence that maybe you've never had a system that was set up to maximise the chances of success and there is also evidence that there are some relatively easy to fix issues that could be limiting things (walls upstairs causing the loft insulation to be bypassed).

 

One of the big issues in your house is that the really thick walls means that once it is cold (and damp) it's really really difficult to then warm things back up again. As in it might take many days (even weeks) of continously hot radiators. The heatpump really isn't big enough to do that, but it is likely big enough to stop things getting cold in the first place, so long as it's given a fighting chance to do so.

 

This is why I've been pushing for you to be ready for end of summer.

 

How to be ready:

1. Get the engineer on Monday to show you how to:

a. turn heating to

- "always on"

- "always off"

- "timer"

b. adjust the set temperature

c. adjust the timer

2. Deal with the bedroom external walls as discussed.

3. If needed, arrange for the thermostat/heatpump controller to be moved to a cold part of the house

4. Possibly, get TRVs installed on the radiators in the warm part of the house (this is something that could be done if needed at a later date).

[S2D2]

48 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

9kW HP hasn't a hope in HELL of providing heat, in this cottage

Your monthly bill would have to be circa £700 to test this theory. It would be useful to know what your next bill actually is.

 

I'm glad your noise issues are sorted and you've found some balance in the heated hut. If you think selling the house would improve matters then that seems very pragmatic.

 

Do not dig out the floor and install ufh. It's a complete waste of money in your situation.

 

All credit to @-rick- for thoughtful suggestions, unfortunately you're not going to get the answers you need to progress the train of thought, it's just not what zoot is looking for from this forum.

[zoothorn]

1 hour ago, S2D2 said:

Your monthly bill would have to be circa £700 to test this theory. It would be useful to know what your next bill actually is.

 

I'm glad your noise issues are sorted and you've found some balance in the heated hut. If you think selling the house would improve matters then that seems very pragmatic.

 

Do not dig out the floor and install ufh. It's a complete waste of money in your situation.

 

All credit to @-rick- for thoughtful suggestions, unfortunately you're not going to get the answers you need to progress the train of thought, it's just not what zoot is looking for from this forum.

Sorry I don't understand a word of this post (apart from credit to Rick bit). £700??? I pay £70. 
 

Selling the house? This is my first house, bought for a steal, which Ive renovated -with fantastic help- that fits me like a glove. A fluke gem which I'll never find another place like it. Besides, 9-years being bullied by sometimes viscous hatred by of a pack of locals, living all around me, which Ive mostly quelled with police help.. I refuse to be defeated, which IS to sell up; the very goal of the coward haters. Making me MORE intent, to stay. Despite the cold, & dreadful damp climate.

 

I'll be watching a YouTube channel as to whether to dig out the floor: a similar sized stone cottage, with a HP, new owners with a similar skillset as me. That will give me the best guage of whether it is a good idea, or not. Despite the owner not being anywhere near as experienced as those on here. Yiu don't need experience, to tell if something is warm. To twll why something is. To determine why something isn't warm, too. It's intuitive. It's a case of living in the area, hearing of others with similar stone properties they find impossible to heat.

 

The first 2 months here, I had a physical pain in my lungs, I knew 1000% was due to the climate. The heavy, damp, welsh hills/ valleys something or other local oddness. It wasn't something I made up, because it was a pronounced physical pain/ ache, which was the nearest Ive come to selling up. This pain abated when I visited few days in England, & returned when I arrived back in the local vicinity. It was extremely strange. Never had any lung probs, never known anything like it, anywhere in the world that Ive been to, including NZ/ Malaysia/ Thailand humid countries etc. This huge delbilitating chest ache did fully abate in time. In 2 months as I said. Now, I don't need a doctor to tell me this wasn't likely true, or that this area doesn't have some climate-related factor that was the cause of it. I just knew, 1000%, it to be true. It was true. You guys...... would dispute it till the cows come home. In fact, you did exactly this. Not you specifically s2d2.

 

Sometimes, an area does just proove to be ----especially cold---- &/ or ----especially damp/ humid/ whatever that aspect is----- without some humidity reading froma gadget, dismissing it as nonsense. The same with warming this cottage. You can't. I swear to god that to be true.. that you just can't.

 

Zoot

Edited 6 hours ago by zoothorn