Demolish bungalow and build new bungalow!

[Dave Anderson]

Hi everyone. We just wanted to extend sideways and at the back a bit, plus change the front elevation to stonework and loose the bay windows, plus major internal alterations. Eventually realised it made more sense to re-build. We now have planning permission, so urgently drawing up detailed drawings for bdg regs and for tendering. No architect involved - all our own ideas and I am an engineer so can do structural calcs for bdg regs.

Question: I'm considering buying a new-build specification template online, seems good value at £30. Has anyone else done this and found it useful?

[JohnMo]

1 minute ago, Dave Anderson said:

specification template online, seems good value at £30. Has anyone else done this and found it useful?

Hi - not sure what you mean by the question?

[Dave Anderson]

18 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

Hi - not sure what you mean by the question?

Well, I think the builders at tender and build stage will need a detailed specification as well as drawings. As we have no architect on board I will be writing the spec. Templates are available on line which can be edited to suit a particular project which will save a lot of time and effort - if they are any good! Just wondering if anyone has used them.

[Andehh]

Welcome! We did exactly the same thing 3 years ago. Went from a large extension all the way through planning 12 months of iterations, until one of the builders had a cancellation so needed a project to fit a gap... But would only rebuild it as felt extension would unveil too many headaches. Went from a 1970s timber frame bungalow to a large high spec ultra modern one! 

 

So pleased we rebuilt and not extended! 

 

Been an emotional journey, but worth it.

[Dave Anderson]

3 minutes ago, Andehh said:

Welcome! We did exactly the same thing 3 years ago. Went from a large extension all the way through planning 12 months of iterations, until one of the builders had a cancellation so needed a project to fit a gap... But would only rebuild it as felt extension would unveil too many headaches. Went from a 1970s timber frame bungalow to a large high spec ultra modern one! 

 

So pleased we rebuilt and not extended! 

 

Been an emotional journey, but worth it.

Well done, glad it all worked out for you. My biggest worry is finding the right builder - the ones I've spoken to so far are too busy!

[Thorfun]

8 hours ago, Dave Anderson said:

Well done, glad it all worked out for you. My biggest worry is finding the right builder - the ones I've spoken to so far are too busy!

They’re the ones you want. You need to plan ahead and wait for the good ones to be able to start. 

[Dave Anderson]

Yes that makes a lot of sense.... But do we have the patience?!!

[Thorfun]

5 minutes ago, Dave Anderson said:

Yes that makes a lot of sense.... But do we have the patience?!!

I think you'll be surprised at how fast the time goes to be honest. they may say 9 months or 1 year but that will pass you by in the blink of an eye. plus it gives you time to read this forum fully to learn all you can! 😉 

[Andehh]

20 minutes ago, Dave Anderson said:

Yes that makes a lot of sense.... But do we have the patience?!!

 We were fortunate we started 9 months sooner then expected, but also massively unfortunate.... That we lost 9 months of planning and organising! 

 

We had to make a lot of rush decisions, and generally got away with it but there was some hefty bills as we "designed it in flight". 

[Dave Anderson]

I couldn't find an obvious section for this question - there doesn't seem to be a section on contract issues.

My question is...what form of contract should I use to employ a builder? I always think that getting fixed price tenders means I'm likely to pay more, because builders will price in a "risk" element to cover any extra costs. Especially at the moment when they are all busy. One has told me they are only working on "cost plus", which in some ways seems fairer, but gives me no cost certainty.

Any thoughts anyone? 

I should add that ideally I would want a general builder to look after demolition and construction up and including plastering, but leaving me to fit out the kitchen, utility and bathrooms, and do all decorating.

[Dave Jones]

you can get all the section details from here

 

https://www.buildingregs4plans.co.uk/pre/new_build_plans_new.php

 

 

[Dave Jones]

5 minutes ago, Dave Anderson said:

I couldn't find an obvious section for this question - there doesn't seem to be a section on contract issues.

My question is...what form of contract should I use to employ a builder? I always think that getting fixed price tenders means I'm likely to pay more, because builders will price in a "risk" element to cover any extra costs. Especially at the moment when they are all busy. One has told me they are only working on "cost plus", which in some ways seems fairer, but gives me no cost certainty.

Any thoughts anyone? 

I should add that ideally I would want a general builder to look after demolition and construction up and including plastering, but leaving me to fit out the kitchen, utility and bathrooms, and do all decorating.

 

for demo, contact your local muck away firms who supply stone etc. They allways after rubble for to recycle and sell on and often will drop and remove the building for free/cost as they keep the rubble. If you strip the internals first of all timber, fittings, etc they would drop and remove it in a day easily.

[Dave Anderson]

Thanks Dave.... interesting idea.  I have thought long and hard about managing it all myself and employing separately a demolition contractor, a groundworker, a brickie, etc, etc. I have the time and probably the experience to do this, but what I don't have is the contacts with all the trades, or any influence to get them to work to my timescales. Hence the preference to find a builder to organise the whole lot.

[Dave Anderson]

Buildingregs4plans looks interesting and potentially useful - thanks Dave. But what I meant is...is there a section of this forum where I should post questions about contract issues when employing builders?

[markc]

Contracts can be as simple or complicated as you want, you detail what you want something to be/look like, type, quality style of finishes etc. when you want it doing and cost. The other party then agrees or disagrees and gives amendments then you both agree to something in the middle.

we have customers with 100 page contracts for a £150k machine and other customers who will happily order 3 or 4 of them on a verbal/phone call or email.

[Dave Anderson]

Thanks Mark, I get that. But should I go lump sum, or is cost plus a good way forward?

[Dave Jones]

get the plans properly QS'd https://www.estimators.com/ will give you the build cost down to last nail and also let a builder do a quote much faster as he has m2 for everything.

 

Architects will put it out to tender but will pull your pants down for the service. May be worth dropping into to your local travis/jewsons and asking for some names.

[Dave Anderson]

Thanks Dave, defo won't be using an architect then! 

Do people on here always get a fixed price for a new build managed by a contractor?

[Big Jimbo]

I think a lot of people do a lot of the management themselves. If you hand it over you are going to be paying top dollar for what you get. 

ie: Plumber want £25k to supply and fit out your plumbing and heating. The actual cost to him will be say £18750, but he wants a margin. vans, office, pension, holiday, sick, office costs, accountancy, etc etc. I have no problem with any of the above. However, the main contractor now gets the plumbers price and puts his margin onto the top, say 25%.. Your plumbers price is now £31250. For me cost + is a bit of a no no.  No incentive for the main contractor to get the best prices from the subbies he uses for your job. I have known plenty of small main contractors who have said in the past. "That new boiler round my mums. Stick the cost of it on here". Just not for me, but i'm sure others have been happy to do it that way.

[Dave Anderson]

Thanks big Jimbo, hard to disagree with what you say.  I'd better get myself a PM hat. I'm concerned that good individual trades might be hard to find and might be hard to control/schedule. However I'm thinking that we could at least started much sooner rather than waiting a year or more for a good main contractor to become available.

[Dave Jones]

i cant see any genuine contractor offering a fixed price at anything other than extortionate rates to protect themselves.

 

You have to be realistic, prices of materials fluctuate. 

 

Get the plans QS'd add 20% contingency and go from there.

[Dave Jones]

Just now, Dave Jones said:

i cant see any genuine contractor offering a fixed price at anything other than extortionate rates to protect themselves.

 

You have to be realistic, prices of materials fluctuate. 

 

Get the plans QS'd add 20% contingency and go from there.

 

m2 expect £3k+

[Dave Anderson]

That's interesting Dave. So what do people do? Enter a contract based on an estimate rather than a quote? Knowing that the builder can increase his price at any time if he or his stubbies say that their costs have gone up?9  I understand there has to be trust, but surely there has to be protection as well.

[Kelvin]

7 hours ago, Dave Anderson said:

Thanks big Jimbo, hard to disagree with what you say.  I'd better get myself a PM hat. I'm concerned that good individual trades might be hard to find and might be hard to control/schedule. However I'm thinking that we could at least started much sooner rather than waiting a year or more for a good main contractor to become available.

I’ve gone individual trades for every aspect. Pricing has been either negotiated fixed price or day rates or paid in arrears. It’s been a combination of me supplying the materials or the trade supplying the materials depending on the material. It’s not easy to manage all the trades especially where the trades need to overlap work. Getting some of them back is hard work. Contracts have been minimal which is how most of the trades operate. Had I been going main contractor then I’ve have had a more comprehensive contract in place. 

[Dave Anderson]

Thanks Kelvin.  I suspect I'll be going the same way. This will enable me to...

Get started earlier

Save a lot of cash

Give myself a lot of work and headaches!