Planning committee Related query

[Achu]

Hi all,

I am sorry that I have posted about the issues regarding my garage conversion a few times. I am a bit paranoid at the moment because the planning committee meeting is on August 1st, and I don’t know what’s going to happen because There are over 22 objections from 15 houses to removing my back fence to park my car.

Actually, the main application is for Garrage conversion, and the removal of the fence is also included with the application.

I was supposed to get the decision by May, and it’s been delayed due to all these objections.

 

I have a few questions regarding the application. If someone could help me,

1) The planning department is 100% supporting our application, but still, there is a chance for the committee members to reject the application, isn't there?

 

2) Even if everything is favourable, on what basis can the committee members reject the application? The highway authority also doesn’t have any safety concerns about the proposal, but the neighbours are pointing out that it’s not safe to park the car in the back garden due to a lack of space to turn the car.

 

If the committee rejects the application and I go for an appeal, who will decide the planning application a second time? I hope all the decisions will be based on planning grounds.

 

I have attached the link to the committee report. If someone could read it and tell me what they think about it,

I am sorry if anyone feels annoyed.

 

https://iawpa.horsham.gov.uk/PublicAccess_LIVE/SearchResult/RunThirdPartySearch?FileSystemId=DH&FOLDER1_REF=DC/23/0324

 

[joe90]

10 minutes ago, Achu said:

I am sorry if anyone feels annoyed.

No don’t, that’s what we are here for. Well I just read a few of the complaints (can’t be bothered to read them all) it’s just nimbyism (not in my back yard), the highways have no problem and the council appear on your side. Any objections have to have merit, I.E. point out planning flaws, not just “I don’t like it”. Crack on, yes it’s unnerving waiting fir a result (been there, done that over two years but won on appeal). Search your local planning website to see if anyone else has done similar and what arguments they used. So many people just don’t like others getting on and doing stuff 👍 let us know how you get on.

[saveasteading]

The commmitee have every right to decide for or against.  They may be wrong but they have the right.

You are entitled to attend the meeting.

You can also ask  to speak. 3 minutes to make sensible points, calmly, then sit quietly. It often helps the case  for councillors to see a real and reasonable person.

 

It is unusual that highways don't insist on entering and leaving in a forward direction. Perhaps your situation is very quiet with good visibility. 

 

As a neighbour my concern might be that you are removing one or more street parking spaces. Ie more private parking for you, and less for everyone else to fight over: can you resolve that  if it is the case?

[Achu]

1 hour ago, joe90 said:

No don’t, that’s what we are here for. Well I just read a few of the complaints (can’t be bothered to read them all) it’s just nimbyism (not in my back yard), the highways have no problem and the council appear on your side. Any objections have to have merit, I.E. point out planning flaws, not just “I don’t like it”. Crack on, yes it’s unnerving waiting fir a result (been there, done that over two years but won on appeal). Search your local planning website to see if anyone else has done similar and what arguments they used. So many people just don’t like others getting on and doing stuff 👍 let us know how you get on.

 

Thanks, Joe, for taking your time to reply to me  and go through the comments.
I am hoping for the best, but I never know what’s on the minds of the committee members. If they will go through the report submitted by the planning department, then there is a chance. I hope the committee also has a valid reason for refusing the application, isn't it?

I will update how the committee went on. Myself and my wife are going to attend the committee meeting.

[joe90]

Actually I just thought about this, the complaint from neighbours are you are removing two parking places? Well if you park within your garden then park across your own drive (which a lot of houses do) you are not reducing the number of parking places but reducing your need to park on the street 🤷‍♂️

[Temp]

1. Yes the committee can decide either way.

 

2. Sometimes I feel sorry for the planning officer that has to think up "valid planning reasons for refusal" after previously supporting the application. Typically they try and think up as many reasons as possible that previously they may not even have mentioned. 

 

3. At appeal it's an independent planning inspector who isn't connected to the council that makes the decision. Bit like a judge in a court case.

 

I'm not sure planning permission is actually required to remove the fence and form a new access. I think it's only required on a classified road (A and B roads?). Normally on unclassified roads you only need permission for a Dropped Kerb which also gives you the right to drive across any footpath without committing a driving offense.

 

Only other thing I can think of is that when your house was built there was a planning condition requiring a fence? 

 

If it gets refused I think I would appeal and submit a new application just to convert the garage and a separate Dropped Kerb Application. Perhaps check with a planning consultant in case I've missed something.

[saveasteading]

20 minutes ago, joe90 said:

then park across your own drive (which a lot of houses do) 

Interesting point. Let me test it.

But a crossover typically takes away 2 spaces in a suburban street due to turning circles. The neighbours can't use them or they are blocking the drive. 

Your theory only applies when the o p is already home with 1 car in rhe drive and 1 over the entrance. Any remaining spaces are first come first served.

O p has 2 private spaces at all times. Others have  2 fewer to fight over. 

[Temp]

I've now read the report from the planning officer and it looks like he has covered everything. I reckon good chance it will be approved. 

[joe90]

5 hours ago, saveasteading said:

But a crossover typically takes away 2 spaces in a suburban street due to turning circles. The neighbours can't use them or they are blocking the drive. 

I question why a dropped kerb for a single car needs to take up two spaces, in a culdesac where my sister lives some have dropped kerbs but they only take up the length of one car and …..

5 hours ago, saveasteading said:

Your theory only applies when the o p is already home with 1 car in rhe drive and 1 over the entrance.

Yes, which many in her street do. So the OP had two spaces (one in the drive and one outside it) and the neighbours only loose one space. 
 

this argument about “parking outside my house is a “right” gets my goat, there is NO right to park outside your own house, it’s a privilege. One of my sisters neighbour once complained about me parking outside their house, in “their” space , I simply told them I have road tax and can park where I want (within the law) 🤣.

Edited July 29, 2023 by joe90

[Achu]

56 minutes ago, Temp said:

1. Yes the committee can decide either way.

 

2. Sometimes I feel sorry for the planning officer that has to think up "valid planning reasons for refusal" after previously supporting the application. Typically they try and think up as many reasons as possible that previously they may not even have mentioned. 

 

3. At appeal it's an independent planning inspector who isn't connected to the council that makes the decision. Bit like a judge in a court case.

 

I'm not sure planning permission is actually required to remove the fence and form a new access. I think it's only required on a classified road (A and B roads?). Normally on unclassified roads you only need permission for a Dropped Kerb which also gives you the right to drive across any footpath without committing a driving offense.

 

Only other thing I can think of is that when your house was built there was a planning condition requiring a fence? 

 

If it gets refused I think I would appeal and submit a new application just to convert the garage and a separate Dropped Kerb Application. Perhaps check with a planning consultant in case I've missed something

Hi, yes, there was a condition in the original planning permission when the house was built. The report from the planning officer is positive, but I am still worried about what will happen in the committee meeting.

[joe90]

15 minutes ago, Achu said:

but I am still worried about what will happen in the committee meeting.

Of course you are, quite normal, but we believe the balance is on your side. 👍

[Dave Jones]

if the officer is recommending approval you have won irrespective of what a councillor may do. 

 

Appeal with costs if they are silly enough.

 

society of whingers and nimbys in this country. I watch our local applications and every one is objected to by neighbours. Nothing would get built ever if it was down to that.

 

[Achu]

8 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

if the officer is recommending approval you have won irrespective of what a councillor may do. 

 

Appeal with costs if they are silly enough.

 

society of whingers and nimbys in this country. I watch our local applications and every one is objected to by neighbours. Nothing would get built ever if it was down to that.

 

Thanks Dave for the positive comment.

yes we do fight if they object 

 

[patp]

Why is it going to committee when the planning department are in favour? Sorry if I have missed something.

The ones I have followed around here, including my own, only went to committee if the local councillor (not the general public) had asked for that to happen. Be aware that the people who sit on planning committees are just ordinary people. The local councillors have some of them in their pockets and they all do each other "favours" which can be reciprocated at some time in the future. Do remember that you can take it to appeal at central government. It costs but mostly they seem to approve these small applications. As has been said the neighbours are all expected to complain but they must have a valid planning complaint. Our neighbours complained about our application but it was still approved.

If you don't feel able to speak at the meeting see if you can find someone to do it for you. One of our architects spoke at ours. Just a calm, sensible, statement pointing out all the pros and addressing, if possible, the objections.

[Temp]

33 minutes ago, patp said:

Why is it going to committee when the planning department are in favour?

 

Most likely because some objections were recieved. That's the policy in our area. If x number of objections are recieved it goes to committee.

[saveasteading]

2 hours ago, Temp said:

If x number of objections are recieved

It can be as few as 2 or 3. Also, if the local councillor asks for it to be discussed, called 'calling in'.

[Achu]

13 hours ago, patp said:

Why is it going to committee when the planning department are in favour? Sorry if I have missed something.

The ones I have followed around here, including my own, only went to committee if the local councillor (not the general public) had asked for that to happen. Be aware that the people who sit on planning committees are just ordinary people. The local councillors have some of them in their pockets and they all do each other "favours" which can be reciprocated at some time in the future. Do remember that you can take it to appeal at central government. It costs but mostly they seem to approve these small applications. As has been said the neighbours are all expected to complain but they must have a valid planning complaint. Our neighbours complained about our application but it was still approved.

If you don't feel able to speak at the meeting see if you can find someone to do it for you. One of our architects spoke at ours. Just a calm, sensible, statement pointing out all the pros and addressing, if possible, the objections.

I appreciate the guidance. In the meeting, my wife will speak. I'll post an update here after the meeting.

[saveasteading]

51 minutes ago, Achu said:

my wife will speak.

I've done this a few times. The time disappears. I now write a statement precisely, in big type, practice and time it, then reduce it to 2.5 minutes.  In the process of speaking to a big room, the deliberate speech slows it down.

The chairman usually only allows the completion of a sentence after 3 minutes.

[Achu]

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

I've done this a few times. The time disappears. I now write a statement precisely, in big type, practice and time it, then reduce it to 2.5 minutes.  In the process of speaking to a big room, the deliberate speech slows it down.

The chairman usually only allows the completion of a sentence after 3 minutes.

They said only 2 minutes of speech, not 3 minutes. It may be different, depending on the council.
She has already written it down on a piece of paper and started practicing 

[Achu]

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

I've done this a few times. The time disappears. I now write a statement precisely, in big type, practice and time it, then reduce it to 2.5 minutes.  In the process of speaking to a big room, the deliberate speech slows it down.

The chairman usually only allows the completion of a sentence after 3 minutes.

 

[saveasteading]

Ouch. 2 minutes is very little.

Best have her recite it aloud to you.

[Big Jimbo]

Best of luck. Let us know.

[joe90]

🤞🙏

[deancatherine09]

We had this. 6 objections and 3 repeat objections (orchestrated by our neighbour, most of the objectors didn't live near us and were their friends & family).

 

Went to committee with support of the planning department - my partner & I spoke for 3 minutes. Objecting neighbour spoke for 3 minutes, PC 3 minutes and local councilor 5 minutes (all against us, but it was clear the PC and the local councilor had been fed lies by the neighbors and they came across as fairly incompetent - spouting off reasons why we shouldn't build a house there when we already had permission for a different design).

 

One person abstained to vote (think the PC had got to him) and all others voted in support. One lady even chastised the neighbours for objecting - saying we should be actively encouraging sustainable developments like ours not trying to stop them. Another said the new design fitted in much better with the street scene and there were murmurings of support when he said that.

 

It was awkward and stressful, and I nearly cried with relief when it was voted for approval, but it's important you attend I think. I think one of the things that helped us was that we were there and spoke, so the committee could see we were a couple trying to create a home and not a developer, and also how much we cared.

 

When it was voted for approval, neighbours got up and left. Can't tell you how good that felt! 

 

Best of luck and please come back to update us with the outcome.

[Big Jimbo]

Great news. IMO i would rather go in front of the planning committee anyday than have to put up with crappy Parish councils and usless planning officers.