Glazing tint - would you accept this

[Adsibob]

5 minutes ago, craig said:

Wouldn’t even cover 2 salaries for a month, it barely cover 1 on £30K PA, including tax, NI pension contributions (employee and employer).

And yet it did not take anywhere near that long to install the windows! Two fitters attended, yes. But they were there for at most 5 days. So that is less than a quarter of a month’s salary for two installers (based on 4.33 weeks a month).

[SteamyTea]

is part of the problem with windows is that most people want them large, as large as possible?

 

[craig]

22 minutes ago, Adsibob said:

And yet it did not take anywhere near that long to install the windows! Two fitters attended, yes. But they were there for at most 5 days. So that is less than a quarter of a month’s salary for two installers (based on 4.33 weeks a month).

Wasn’t specifically talking about installers but I hear what your saying. To have a dedicated install teams, you need to be doing a minimum of four installs (new builds) a week (48 to 50 weeks of the year).

 

12 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

 

is part of the problem with windows is that most people want them large, as large as possible?

 

It doesn’t help 😂

[saveasteading]

1 hour ago, Adsibob said:

they were there for at most 5 days.

So they were good and did it quickly and without problems you know of. Probably paid more than the average fitter. Perhaps being paid a lump sum. Would you be happier if it took longer? Should the company allow only those estimated 5 days or allow contingency?

 

Can you clarify? The £4k margin included fitting?

Who was responsible for site measurement?

 

Anyway, back to my question. Allow for whatever discount you think the intermediary might get: I'd be interested to see what actual profit you come up with.

 

Its academic i know, but may be of interest to others at a negotiating stage who dont understand the  difference between contracting and service/ £/hr busineses.

 

You might be happier too, to know you haven't been overcharged.

[Adsibob]

5 hours ago, saveasteading said:

Can you clarify? The £4k margin included fitting?

Who was responsible for site measurement?

I don’t know if the actual margin was £4K, that was just the difference between cheaper option 1, I contract directly with the English manufacturer (albeit the actual factory is in Poland), and they are responsible for everything; and

Option 2, £4K more expensive, but quicker, contract with only other company authorised to sell this product in England, manufactured at same factory in Poland.

 

The entity I contract with is responsible for surveying, supplying and installing. Everything.

 

Both vendors in both options make money. I’m just guesstimating that if the vendor in Option 2 is £4K more expensive, although some of that might be additional cost, say a fee to get this exclusive joint venture deal with the manufacturer, there is margin to be made on the other aspects of the supply chain. So £4K is still a reasonable guess.

 

5 hours ago, saveasteading said:

So they were good and did it quickly and without problems you know of.

They were ok. They worked too quickly in my opinion, ended up making mistakes and had to come back to fix a couple of issues. But they did come back, more than once, and were decent about it. Maybe 6.5 working days in total, including snagging, although the snagging was done by just one guy, so 11.5 man days total.

 

[Kelvin]

11.5 man days to fit windows and carry out some snagging? How many windows? 

[Kelvin]

On 21/07/2023 at 15:42, SteamyTea said:

is part of the problem with windows is that most people want them large, as large as possible?

 

I’m sure it doesn’t help. However if you have a nice view you might as well take advantage of it. The alternative is project the live view onto the wall and just have a hidden door. Get the same view with none of the compromise of a window. 

[Adsibob]

54 minutes ago, Kelvin said:

11.5 man days to fit windows and carry out some snagging? How many windows? 

Effectively a whole 5 bed house from scratch, so a lot.

[SteamyTea]

1 hour ago, Kelvin said:

However if you have a nice view you might as well take advantage of it

I can understand the view thing, we have views down here, usually of industrial minting wasteland, AKA Heritage.

My point earlier was that even if the whole wall was glazing, yours eyes field of view is at most 220° side to side, when wiggled side to side, and 135° when moved up and down.

It they were fixed like a camera, then around 120° width wise, and 60° height wise.

So, you would need to be quite a long way from the window to take full advantage of its size.

Basically people only look out of a very small part of a window.  So why make them over large, and the associated problems that seems to bring with it.

 

I was walking past a house that had, in the bedrooms, opening doors all the way to the floor.  I want to know, how someone laying in bed can get a good view in the bottom half.  Do they sit on the floor?

I did have a good view into their bedroom from 50m away and 4 m lower.

[Kelvin]

36 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

I can understand the view thing, we have views down here, usually of industrial minting wasteland, AKA Heritage.

My point earlier was that even if the whole wall was glazing, yours eyes field of view is at most 220° side to side, when wiggled side to side, and 135° when moved up and down.

It they were fixed like a camera, then around 120° width wise, and 60° height wise.

So, you would need to be quite a long way from the window to take full advantage of its size.

Basically people only look out of a very small part of a window.  So why make them over large, and the associated problems that seems to bring with it.

 

I was walking past a house that had, in the bedrooms, opening doors all the way to the floor.  I want to know, how someone laying in bed can get a good view in the bottom half.  Do they sit on the floor?

I did have a good view into their bedroom from 50m away and 4 m lower.

 

When you climb up something to look at the view you don’t just look at the one spot you take in the whole vista by changing your perspective. We are 260m or so above sea level with the valley stretching out below us to the hills in the distance. The view is completely uninterrupted. We can see each end of the hill range which is some 13km end to end. The weather rolls up the valley before hitting the town and turning towards us. We can see it coming for some 30 minutes. It’s mesmerising watching it. Very often there’s a mist that hangs low over the valley and we are looking down on top of it. It’s beautiful. While we can’t quite see the sun rise we do see it from very early and watch it traverse the sky before setting right in the middle of our large picture window behind some trees. We could have put a sliding door and removed the other three large windows but we would lose that whole view so consequently the whole wall is pretty much glass. Arguably we could just stand outside I guess. The big full height windows also let in a lot more light. 

Edited July 22, 2023 by Kelvin

[Adsibob]

I think the point of big windows is to lose the separation between inside and outside. We have a huge window in front of our kitchen sink, so that when you are by the kitchen sink, you feel like you are standing in the garden. Similarly with our 2.2m high glass sliding doors; whether they are open or closed the lounge is almost seamlessly joined to the garden. You couldn’t achieve those effects without large pans of glass.

[SteamyTea]

15 minutes ago, Kelvin said:

The weather rolls up the valley before hitting the town and turning towards us

Very often there’s a mist that hangs low over the valley

Yes, we get that, spoils the view.  Having a day like that today.  Can tell it is the summer holidays, rain and wind.

17 minutes ago, Kelvin said:

Arguably we could just stand outside I guess.

Or sit a bit closer to the window.  Which is my point really.

13 minutes ago, Adsibob said:

I think the point of big windows is to lose the separation between inside and outside

I do get that, but does that not take away as much as it gives.  If you can get the outdoor experience while sitting indoors, is there any reason to ever go outside?

I am not suggesting that one sits in a bricked up room with a small frosted window (worked in an office withing a factory like that, was very depressing, though that could have been because I was sharing it with a Welsh and a Bogger), just that I fail to see how full width and height glazing adds much over say 45% glazing, that is in the right place.

19 minutes ago, Adsibob said:

a huge window in front of our kitchen sink

What does your scullery maid think of it, have you asked.

[Redbeard]

Just noticed @SteamyTea's ref to "industrial minting wasteland". Do they have that in Kendal too?

[Adsibob]

7 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

What does your scullery maid think of it, have you asked.

It was her idea. She wanted a view of the garden whilst washing up. Don’t think she would have settled for a peep hole.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Adsibob

[SteamyTea]

5 minutes ago, Redbeard said:

"industrial minting wasteland"

Minting lithium soon.

[SteamyTea]

2 minutes ago, Adsibob said:

Don’t think she would have settled for a peep hole.

She would here

[Kelvin]

I like to close threads off. The one thing that annoys me a little about some threads on here is people start them, lots of people contribute suggestions and you never find out how it ended and it’s helpful to know for the future when other folk have a similar problem. 
 

They replaced the window and the tint matches perfectly. However, they also damaged all the aluminium cladding and window beads in the process so I lost my rag a bit about that. They have all subsequently now been replaced too. 
 

This all started back in April when the windows were delivered two days earlier than planned and just before the scaffolding went up. I didn’t want to take them as the likelihood of them getting damaged was high. But Heb Homes knew better and said they’d accept the risk. Sure as eggs is eggs a window got smashed and everyone on-site denied it was them. The scaffolding company said it’s what insurance is for 🙄 I pointed out that it wasn’t the money as the timber kit company were covering that. It was the consequential hassle this would generate for me trying to get this fixed and I was right about that as it took 6 months and wasted hours of my time. No idea how much this cost Heb and Nordan but a lot. The good news the two incorrect glazing units were put to good use in some garden rooms in the local town. 
 

 

[saveasteading]

1 hour ago, Kelvin said:

lots of people contribute suggestions and you never find out how it ended and it’s helpful to know for the future when other folk have a similar problem. 

It's courtesy too.  Thought and time goes into these contributions yet sometimes the op is not heard from again.

In a lotbof cases it seems that it isnt what they wanted to hear.

 

Thanks @Kelvin for your summary.

I will never mind getting a reminder if i haven't closed one of my queries.

[craig]

Great to hear it was resolved.

 

On 25/11/2023 at 12:11, Kelvin said:

However, they also damaged all the aluminium cladding and window beads in the process

It’s an art removing timber beads on timber windows, you will inevitable bruise the wood due to the leverage required but you do need to take care and not go in all gung ho.