FFTP/Openreach/new building regs

[Selfbuildnewbie]

Following changes to building regs in December we either need to install FFTP to our new build, or install the infrastructure necessary for a FFTP connection.

Even with the developer cap offered by openreach, we can't justify the cost of installing FFTP connection now that we don't really care for, we plan to install a 'standard' FFTC connection, and then all being well be upgraded at some point along with everyone else in the area.

 

The problem we've reached is how do we find out what we need to do to install the 'infrastructure necessary for FFTP'? Our main contractor tried registering via the developer portal, and got to the stage where we've got a contract for FFTP, which we don't want to accept - and now were stuck. They are yet to manage to speak to anyone helpful and all the numbers I've tried now claim to be closed.

 

Has anyone been in this position and can share how they moved forward? Or how to contact open reach?

Any and all suggestions welcome!

[Dave Jones]

you have to accept the FTTP connection for the new Part R building regs. BT charge a standard £2000 for the service.

 

Used to be able to just have copper but not anymore.

 

Log into the portal, upload your plans etc. They will send an invoice. pay it and they will free issue you the ducting and tell you where they need it routing too.

[Jenki]

In Scotland they just dropped off the ducting, using the FTTP duct and connected to the copper network on the other side of the track. The copper network is rubbish, so cancelled the contact and use 4G, but have installed the ducting, so box ticked and no cost.

[Selfbuildnewbie]

21 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

you have to accept the FTTP connection for the new Part R building regs. BT charge a standard £2000 for the service.

 

Used to be able to just have copper but not anymore.

 

Log into the portal, upload your plans etc. They will send an invoice. pay it and they will free issue you the ducting and tell you where they need it routing too.

Ah - I thought we could have the next best thing if the cost was too high (which it is) but had to make sure appropriate ducting was in place for when the fibre upgrade time comes.

 

Thank you for the practical advice - from what your saying it sounds like I just have to stop complaining and get on with it.

 

Seems a bit of a cheek to force you to pay for something which no-one else has to. It's a demolish and rebuild, so we already have a copper cable.

[Selfbuildnewbie]

20 minutes ago, Jenki said:

In Scotland they just dropped off the ducting, using the FTTP duct and connected to the copper network on the other side of the track. The copper network is rubbish, so cancelled the contact and use 4G, but have installed the ducting, so box ticked and no cost.

Scotland does sound like a great place....

[Canski]

I am in the same boat but Openreach have been excellent and are installing it for free. 

[Selfbuildnewbie]

9 minutes ago, Canski said:

I am in the same boat but Openreach have been excellent and are installing it for free. 

Please tell me more!

[Canski]

I made an initial enquiry through their portal I believe. This is a bit of a faff but they then emailed me and told me that they would install it at no cost and even drop all the ducting off for free. Then a couple of weeks later a joint box appeared infant of the site in exactly the right place. There is a God !

[Selfbuildnewbie]

1 hour ago, Canski said:

I made an initial enquiry through their portal I believe. This is a bit of a faff but they then emailed me and told me that they would install it at no cost and even drop all the ducting off for free. Then a couple of weeks later a joint box appeared infant of the site in exactly the right place. There is a God !

Brilliant! I’ve just registered myself as a company, let’s see if I fair any better than the builder…

 

[Kelvin]

The text below might not apply to you of course. 
 

I’m in Scotland where this new planning regulation isn’t mandatory. We don’t have a working telephone line nearby. There’s a rickety overhead cable attached to the next house along but they barely get a telephone service let alone broadband. Consequently I’ve not done anything about ducting for FTTP although I have plenty of spare ducts. 

 

“It should go without saying that the language of this policy means that some developments will slip through the cracks. For example, we suspect that some self-built homes will probably escape, as the cost of connecting them to gigabit lines in remote rural areas would simply not be viable until better underlying infrastructure becomes available (falling back to 10Mbps+ will resolve this for most such situations).”

[Dave Jones]

you could allways just buy  the joint box BT use for fibre and fit it to the house. Not as if building control are going to plug a laptop in to test it...

[MikeSharp01]

We have all our services; Gas - not connected, Electricity, Water and the FTTP, to a services block at the front of the property we then take the services into the buildings from there. So the router is in the house but the little box that converts the fibre to CAT6, the fibre comes down the local pole and along the duct we installed from it to the services block - not far, is in the services block. I also have the external temperature & humidity sensor there, so well away from the influences of the house, and will shortly have the energy monitor there on the network as the smart meter is there as well. 

[Selfbuildnewbie]

3 hours ago, Kelvin said:

The text below might not apply to you of course. 
 

I’m in Scotland where this new planning regulation isn’t mandatory. We don’t have a working telephone line nearby. There’s a rickety overhead cable attached to the next house along but they barely get a telephone service let alone broadband. Consequently I’ve not done anything about ducting for FTTP although I have plenty of spare ducts. 

 

“It should go without saying that the language of this policy means that some developments will slip through the cracks. For example, we suspect that some self-built homes will probably escape, as the cost of connecting them to gigabit lines in remote rural areas would simply not be viable until better underlying infrastructure becomes available (falling back to 10Mbps+ will resolve this for most such situations).”

the regs say that if the total cost including VAT exceed £2k (which is the case for us) then we don’t actually need to install FTTP fibre for now but we can instead install “gigabit ready infrastructure” (by which I think they just mean ducting?) from the house to the road and then we can just pull through a copper cable and use “normal” broadband for now. 

 

what we can’t work out is how to get hold of that ducting from openreach without paying them the £2k for the full FTTP connection. Seems We can only speak to someone at openreach if we accept a contract to install FTTP and pay the £2k. Very frustrating!  
 

[MikeSharp01]

13 minutes ago, Selfbuildnewbie said:

what we can’t work out is how to get hold of that ducting from openreach without paying them the £2k for the full FTTP connection. Seems We can only speak to someone at openreach if we accept a contract to install FTTP and pay the £2k. Very frustrating!  

We didn't use BT ducting - which you can get from many suppliers -E.G. HERE, I used 28mm Pex-AL-Pex pipe (You need to ensure it is covered as it is not UV protected but as I am not using it for water I think it will last for almost ever) which I steam bent (just ran the wallpaper stripper through it for 10 minutes) to 150mm rad bends as a continuous run from the pole to the wall where BT will want to install what they call their 'outside' box. (It is where they splice the incoming cable from the local infrastructure to the fibre that will actually go into your building and up to the Fibre - CAT6 converter BT will fit.) So you may need two duct runs one to get to that outside box and then from there to the inside box if its a long run. The BT team arrived looked at the job and said this looks too easy as you have done all our work for us. Fed the fibre through the duct, no draw wire needed, fitted the boxes and tested the system - and pushed off home early!

[kommando]

The 600m of FTTP ducting put in for my property was 54mm grey duct which you can buy online.

 

https://www.drainagepipe.co.uk/bt-duct-54mm-x-3mtr-grey-p-BT54/

 

They wanted to put a telegraph pole next to the boundary and then on the final install run a cable from the pole to the house but instead they agreed to leave me the 54mm duct and I dug for and buried it myself plus they saved a pole.

 

You also have to install a pull cord (2 is better) for them to pull the fibre through the ducting. 

[MikeSharp01]

41 minutes ago, kommando said:

The 600m of FTTP

That is a lot of duct. Our duct was only 2m long as the pole is in the front of our plot and the service block is right there they didn't need a pull rope. 

[Dave Jones]

On 14/07/2023 at 08:17, Selfbuildnewbie said:

the regs say that if the total cost including VAT exceed £2k (which is the case for us) then we don’t actually need to install FTTP fibre for now but we can instead install “gigabit ready infrastructure” (by which I think they just mean ducting?) from the house to the road and then we can just pull through a copper cable and use “normal” broadband for now. 

 

what we can’t work out is how to get hold of that ducting from openreach without paying them the £2k for the full FTTP connection. Seems We can only speak to someone at openreach if we accept a contract to install FTTP and pay the £2k. Very frustrating!  
 

 

so if you have a quote from BT for over £2k then email it to your BCO and claim the exemption. You can use normal coiled ducting for copper wires.

[Selfbuildnewbie]

 

On 16/07/2023 at 07:44, Dave Jones said:

 

so if you have a quote from BT for over £2k then email it to your BCO and claim the exemption. You can use normal coiled ducting for copper wires.

Thanks, we actually did this prior to our initial notice being submitted for building control, but assumed for them to be able to sign off at the end we would need to prove that something else had been put in place. Will speak to them again.

 

in other news, they’ve just started installing full fibre free of charge on the next road to us 🙄

[Alan Ambrose]

@MikeSharp01 >>> We have all our services; Gas - not connected, Electricity, Water and the FTTP, to a services block at the front of the property

 

Ah, I was thinking of using 3 glass fibre kiosks, but a single building/shed thing makes sense. Was there any problem having water & power etc into the same structure?

 

Ta, Alan

[MikeSharp01]

@Alan Ambrose Nope, all very straight forward the Electric (UKPN in our case) people and Openreach all said how much a doddle it was hooking it up. We arranged them so the Gas (Not connected - just a blanked off meter in there) and the electric Meter where on the front on the block accessible to the suppliers and the Electric distribution box and the comms box are behind them (Actually will end up being inside the cycle / bin / ASHP - if we have one, shed so secure.   

 

Just to be clear on the Gas situation, we have installed a track pipe from the utilities block into the plant room / utility just in case we, or future owners, want to have gas appliances but for us its a no-no. Once we can get onto the right tariff with octopus we will ask them to remove the meter. If anybody in the future wants to have gas they will have to get it replaced but all the pipework will be there for them ready.

Edited August 5, 2023 by MikeSharp01
Added Gas situation detail.

[kandgmitchell]

Well I've just been through the Openreach developers portal application system. It's not exactly the easiest application I've done. However, it's just churned out a quote for £9710.00 so I think that's a thanks but no thanks. 

 

The static now has a 4G router with a £24/month unlimited no contract sim card in it. All our stuff including the smart TV seems to work fine so I may transfer that when the house is finished.

[Alan Ambrose]

Openreach are taking the pi55 with me. I sent them the standard block plan which, of course, has been through 9 levels of LPA validation.

 

(there are 5 houses in this post code...)

 

"We can't see where this is..."

 

"Yeah, maybe the post code or the easting/northing pair, or the road name, the names of the nearby buildings, the plot outline in red maybe?"

 

"We can't see where this is..."

 

So, I take the admin through the block plan on the phone pointing out where each of these pieces of information can be found on the electronic paper. "Maybe you could just type the postcode or the easting/northing into Google maps?"

 

"No we can't do that."

"We can't see where this is..."

[kandgmitchell]

In order to claim the exemption from Part R - gigabit ready infrastructure, we need two quotes showing we exceed the cost cap (£2K).

 

As mentioned above, Openreach has quoted £9700 odd. Has anyone any suggestions for a second provider I can approach?

[joth]

1 hour ago, kandgmitchell said:

In order to claim the exemption from Part R - gigabit ready infrastructure, we need two quotes showing we exceed the cost cap (£2K).

 

As mentioned above, Openreach has quoted £9700 odd. Has anyone any suggestions for a second provider I can approach?

Depends entirely where in the country you are, but for many Virgin Media is the other choice

 

Note 2 quotes over £2k does not exempt you from part R gigabit ready infrastructure (aka ducting) requirements, only from pre-installing the gigabit internet through said infrastructure.

 

 

[kandgmitchell]

I expected to install suitable ducting anyway as it may be used one day. I strongly suspected that no gigabit ready infrastructure would be available anywhere near here for a sensible price. I just want to have my evidence to hand when the matter is raised by building control. I'll give virgin a go, many thanks.