Single Lap Tile Fixings & Solar

[glock339]

Hi I have two 64 sqm roofs on my property, last year I completely stripped one of them & slated it myself, which looks very nice but took me ages & cost a small fortune.

 

This year I'm stripping the other roof but I'm also getting solar installed so thinking some sort of riven look tile as 90% of the roof will be covered by solar therefore I can't see the point in the extra expense & time req for slate. Before anyone asks I have done a LOT of research & calcs on integrated solar panels, unfortunately my budget is extremely tight & I can get around 30%+ more electricity production for my budget with on roof panels (had many quotes) & I'm a high electricity user so every Kw counts!

 

This will be the 1st tiled roof I've done so been researching & it seems in the old days tiles were either laid without fixings, or with just the eves & every 3rd or 5th course fixed. Then since BS 5534 every tile is supposed to have at least 1 fixing or 2 around verges etc & some systems even recommend clips & nails on every one of their tiles. Now the comments sections of anything online showing every tile being fixed seems to be full of angry roofers complaining about how this makes it practically impossible to do repairs/maintenance without smashing tiles & breaking off the nibs on replacement tiles etc. 

 

So I'm wondering if I fix every tile is it going to cause issues for the solar installers & would they have to start smashing tiles on my brand new roof? I have seen another video where they just knock a wedge under the row above then use a flat crowbar to remove the nail but it looked very "ideal world" & I'm not entirely sure how easy that'd be in real life.

 

Also do solar panels off any sort of wind protection to tiles, which would possibly make the fixing of every tile unnecessary anyway? I'm not looking to penny pinch on a few nails/clips & hammering in nails is no drama to me, I'm just trying to find out what is best for the roof & the solar instal.

 

Cheers.

 

 

Edited July 13, 2023 by glock339

[JohnMo]

Why would you bother with tiles under the PV. A GSE Roof integrated tray is about £35. It's going to cost you more to tile, even DIY. Plus doing a half arsed tile install is just daft. And possibly make the house unsellable.

 

GSE tray are easy to install, I installed 18m2 in morning on my own.

 

Not sure where you get the idea you'll get 30% more yield from with panels not roof integrated. Someone is spinning you a line, if that's the case.

[glock339]

Yes I knew there'd be people who get caught up on the Integrated thing hence why I laid out the fact that I have done the calculations on the many quotes I've had & for my maximum budget it works out that I can get 30% or more Kw per year from the On roof quotes & I'd only save around £500 on tiles. I do have a calculator & I can do maths so just take my word for it as I'd rather not derail this into an Integrated vs On roof debate. 

 

Not sure why the house would be unsellable if every single tile wasn't fixed as every other roof in my street is built that way & I wasn't saying that was the way I wanted to do it either, I was merely asking for some friendly advice on the question I posted.

Edited July 13, 2023 by glock339

[Conor]

How are you getting more generation from on roof rather compared to in-roof? You can put the GSE panels right up to the ridge and down to the gutter. What's the total size of your PV install?

Edited July 13, 2023 by Conor

[glock339]

I'm really not interested in an integrated vs on roof debate, for my maximum budget I can get a system that is 30% bigger if I go on roof.

[dpmiller]

heck I'd love to get an extra 30%. Are the panels actually bigger, are you able to get more in closer to the edges, or has someone told you that on-roof is less affected by heat please?

[Mr Punter]

Request a fixing specification from the tile manufacturer specific to your roof and follow it.

[Conor]

20 minutes ago, glock339 said:

I'm really not interested in an integrated vs on roof debate, for my maximum budget I can get a system that is 30% bigger if I go on roof.

Ahhh I understand now. For the money, an on-roof is coming is 30% cheaper than in-roof? Makes sense. Saving for in-roof comes in to play with the likes of slates that cost more.

[glock339]

24 minutes ago, Conor said:

Ahhh I understand now. For the money, an on-roof is coming is 30% cheaper than in-roof? Makes sense. Saving for in-roof comes in to play with the likes of slates that cost more.

 

Yes that's exactly it, I'd only save around £500 on tiles if I went Integrated but I'd gain around 3kw on the system if I went for On roof. I wasn't even taking into account the much debated efficiency loss of integrated which most seem to agree is around 10% but I know there are many who'd argue differently.

 

 

Just for anyone who doesn't get it here's a very simplified version of what's happening but I've rounded the numbers:

 

Max Budget £13,000 = 15kw best on roof quote or 12kw best Integrated quote.

 

 

Edited July 13, 2023 by glock339

[glock339]

24 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

Request a fixing specification from the tile manufacturer specific to your roof and follow it.

 

So that's one vote for fix all tiles as per specs & the solar instal should be fine I take it

Edited July 13, 2023 by glock339

[Mr Punter]

Maybe once it is battened you could ask your solar installers if you should leave any tiles not nailed?  I recently had some solar put on a tiled roof and it caused no issues.  A few tiles were removed and modified with a grinder and replaced.

[makie]

So it's solar on brackets I'm assuming? Ask the manufacturer of the tiles if they will guarantee their product with these because most don't.

[Nickfromwales]

We quote the exact same price, on roof or in-roof, the maths work out near identical whether it's brackets and rails or in-roof trays. I hear you loud and clear that you don't want a debate, but I'll not sit quiet whilst I hear something so odd being quoted, apologies in advance.

Someone has been yanking your chain. FYI, I've been in an around the solar industry for a number of years, and we install solar via the same agent on every single property.

 

You've already spent 'a fortune', so we're just advising on how to not do that again  

[Gus Potter]

9 hours ago, glock339 said:

Not sure why the house would be unsellable if every single tile wasn't fixed as every other roof in my street is built that way

Have you had a look at the extra load potentially that you are adding to the roof structural timbers. That may cause a problem if you come to sell.

 

I am starting to see a bit of uptake in folk wanting a report and structural calcs for fitting PV on existing roofs.

 

Assessing old roofs is challenging.. but a lot of fun as you get to delve into the history of the structure.

 

You may think.. big old timbers, I think yes fair enough but the nails holding it together are rusty! for example. Also a lot of these old timbers were are working on the edge.. they look big but tend to be on their span maximum. Over time some of the bracing may have been taken out, the batten fixings are nail sick, loss of stiffness in the roof etc.

 

Next.. you are putting on PV panels.. surely the roof under should last as long as the panels as they are a big investment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[glock339]

4 hours ago, Gus Potter said:

Have you had a look at the extra load potentially that you are adding to the roof structural timbers. That may cause a problem if you come to sell.

 

Yes all sorted thanks.

 

7 hours ago, makie said:

So it's solar on brackets I'm assuming? Ask the manufacturer of the tiles if they will guarantee their product with these because most don't.

 Well I guess everyone with solar will have the same problem there so not much I can do about that.

 

6 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

We quote the exact same price, on roof or in-roof, the maths work out near identical whether it's brackets and rails or in-roof trays. I hear you loud and clear that you don't want a debate, but I'll not sit quiet whilst I hear something so odd being quoted, apologies in advance.

Someone has been yanking your chain. FYI, I've been in an around the solar industry for a number of years, and we install solar via the same agent on every single property.

 

You've already spent 'a fortune', so we're just advising on how to not do that again  

 That's all great but I've spent over a month getting in quotes/ having site visits & I've explained what I have sitting on my desk.

 

 

[glock339]

11 hours ago, Mr Punter said:

Maybe once it is battened you could ask your solar installers if you should leave any tiles not nailed?  I recently had some solar put on a tiled roof and it caused no issues.  A few tiles were removed and modified with a grinder and replaced.

 

🥳 ah a constructive answer to my question, thank you sir! Not a bad shout & out of interest do you know if your tiles were all mechanically fixed & if so was it nails or hooks or both etc?

[Mr Punter]

The were Sandtoft 20/20 tiles.  I think they are all nailed.  The dark grey (antique) ones look quite good.  Fairly economical too for a clay tile.

[S2D2]

Best to ask your installer referencing the exact tiles, we had no issues with lifting and refitting tiles but they'd just come from a job with a difficult type (I can't remember which sorry) where they'd broken and had to replace a dozen or so getting them off.

[glock339]

35 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

The were Sandtoft 20/20 tiles.  I think they are all nailed.  The dark grey (antique) ones look quite good.  Fairly economical too for a clay tile.

Those 20/20s do seem to be a good price for clay, I have a Sandtoft sample & the quality seems to be very good.

 

38 minutes ago, S2D2 said:

Best to ask your installer referencing the exact tiles, we had no issues with lifting and refitting tiles but they'd just come from a job with a difficult type (I can't remember which sorry) where they'd broken and had to replace a dozen or so getting them off.

That was my concern, especially if I went with something that isn't easily available at the local roofing merchants although I think will just go with something that is.