Retaining Wall for Garden

[rowingzeus]

UpHi all,

 

Brief intro. I know nothing so I won't be offended if you treat me like an idiot. It works better that way.

I was quoted 20k for a garden wall and steps so I'm going to give it a go by myself. I get it, the quote was accurate and I'm not complaining. I just can't afford it.

 

I speak in plain English so any words that might mean brick or wood said in any other way might confuse my old brain.

 

Skillset doesn't exist. Drill a hole and chaos follows. I can just about mow the grass without losing a leg.

 

My query for anybody to guide me is:

 

I removed the crumbling old garden wall that seemed to be made from randomly shaped waste concrete blocks. The steps were bricks, Castacrete blocks and slabs. The mortar was like sand in places. I intend rebuilding it.

 

The wall was a retaining wall about 3 feet high against soil. The steps about 4 feet high or just over leading up to the garden. The wall and steps were about 40 feet long. It was single skinned with no 7N blocks backing it up which is probably why is was crumbling. (Stop me if I'm talking nonsense)

 

I took the wall down to a smooth poured/laid footing (?) and this is slightly above ground, including the steps.

 

Some of the footing is in good condition. Some has crumbled so I have to lay new footing for at least part of it.

 

However, should I remove all the remaining footing? It sits above ground on some areas and from what I've read, should the footing for my future wall be slightly below ground level for strength?

 

I'm either going to use bricks, blocks or wooden sleepers. I don't yet know. Whatever is easiest or cheapest.

 

Should I lay 7N blocks or simply two layers (I think "skins" is the term) of ordinary brick. I was quoted 7N possibly due to the direct facing soil on wall and moisture which travels towards the wall when wet.

 

I have a billion more questions but that's a rabbit hole which I will avoid at this moment.

 

In brief:

 

1. Remove old footing entirely or not?

 

2. Use 7N blocks with a front skin of bricks or sleepers of my choice?

 

Photo attached. (I can't add any more due to image size)

 

Good folks on this forum. Help this old (but strong and not afraid of work) son of a gun to build a wall that will last at least as long as I'm living here. Or alive. Whichever comes first.

 

Hoping any of this makes sense...

 

Thanks in anticipation. 

 

RZ

[markc]

Good morning and welcome,  at 3 feet high and stable (looking) ground behind it the wall doesn’t need to be anything special. Laying bricks is an art form, blocks much easier and sleepers even easier. Cost wise, blocks cheapest followed by sleepers and brick most expensive. Brick and block needs a good foundation, sleepers will happily sit on some gravel or hardcore for drainage. Any wall needs water to drain from behind and out at the bottom or at the ends. Build the wall, dpm (damp proof membrane) sheet behind and back fill with 6 inch or so clean gravel between wall and soil.

[rowingzeus]

markc,

 

An instant reply making total sense so far, for which I thank you. Really.

 

Based on what you said I'm drawn to using sleepers so it looks like I'm removing the old footing (at least for the wall) and I'll keep the footing on the steps at this time unless it becomes a problem - but that's for another day.

 

Brilliant. I'll get digging.

 

 

[saveasteading]

Water behind the wall is the usual cause of failure.

 

 

Here is the cheapest rebuild idea.

An easy aid to wall stability is to build it leaning or stepping back towards the slope.

 

Lay one row of blocks on the existing base. Backfill with gravel to catch water. Place small pipes from the gravel, over the blocks so that water flows away.

 

Continue with more blocks, Set back 25mm or 30mm.

Place membrane over the gravel to keep it clean and fill the space with rubble.

Repeat. 

 

It's up to you if that looks OK or is too basic.

[rowingzeus]

Thank you saveasteading.

 

I will use a more decorative stone/brick/block or sleeper. That is a given from Mrs. rowingzeus. I like the idea of stepping it back.

 

I reckon my (our) decision will be made when I've dug out more soil and dug out the old footing but it sounds like I must use a membrane and drain/weep holes for whatever we choose.

[Temp]

Perhaps something like these interlocking blocks. Once the foundations are done you don't use mortar except perhaps for the top layer..

 

https://www.marshalls.co.uk/commercial/product/retaining-wall-series

 

https://www.marshalls.co.uk/commercial/product/freestanding-wall-series

Edited June 24, 2023 by Temp

[rowingzeus]

Amazing, Temp.

Lots of great ideas here.

I posted the same original question on another forum and nobody replied so this is a goldmine.

I'll post the finished product when I'm done which will still be several months away due to work and life etc...but I'm a lot more confident now.

Thanks all.

[Radian]

On 24/06/2023 at 07:49, rowingzeus said:

I was quoted 20k for a garden wall and steps so I'm going to give it a go by myself. I get it, the quote was accurate and I'm not complaining. I just can't afford it.

 

 

I had never built a stone wall before but decided to give it a go. Stone IMO is way more forgiving than brick or block - by its rustic nature!

Think I got away with it...

 

 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2023 by Radian

[Bozza]

Have you considered gabion baskets.  You can use decorative rocks on face and rubble behind. It does have a distinctive look which may or may not be to your taste/style.

 

the baskets aren’t cheap but you could pick up rubble for free from Facebook, and buy your stone direct from quarries to face the baskets.  I’ve seen gabion baskets with sleepers on top as a cap which can look really good.

 

might be an option for you.

 

 

[Gone West]

4 hours ago, Bozza said:

the baskets aren’t cheap

For our next gabion wall I've decided to make the baskets myself. I have the crimping tool and clips, I've seen how they're put together, so I'll just buy the appropriate mesh sheets.

[Radian]

On 24/06/2023 at 07:49, rowingzeus said:

1. Remove old footing entirely or not?

 

What do we think? It looks pretty sound to me. But is the bit in the photo representative of the entire run? Were there any cracks in the blocks or in their joints?

I should mention that the cropped stone for my wall came in at £150/ton delivered from a local quarry and covered 4.5m^2. That was just before Covid mind.

 

[rowingzeus]

That's a fine looking job, Radian. The blocks are a great idea and look nice. My wall is at least 3 feet high. The soil is secure even during recent downpours but I'd be reluctant to lay a single skin to ensure strength.

 

Never thought of gabion baskets. Had to look them up. My problem might be brambles. Got loads in the soil behind the wall and they grow like their on steroids.

 

Thanks all, so far. All giving me hope.

 

For bricks and blocks, I'll need to know mortar mixtures etc... Any clues or tips?

[saveasteading]

8 hours ago, rowingzeus said:

mortar mixtures etc... Any clues or tips?

Usually printed on a cement bag.

[Conor]

Make your life simple, use interlocking retaining blocks. More expensive, but easy and fast to lay once you've a level base.

[rowingzeus]

Late response. Remember that Covid thing? Well I just got a fresh batch which put me in bed for 3 days. On a breathless recovery from today.

 

You know, simple works for me.

To answer a couple of questions, the entire footing is not sound. The farthest part of the footing (top right of my photo) has totally crumbled. The left side (bottom left photo) is solid. The steps footing (centre photo) is solid so I'm going to remove all the old wall footing (solid and crumbling) and keep the steps footing because that will be easier for me to work with.

 

As for making my own gabion baskets. Like the idea but that's like me doing maths at school (a brave attempt but 100% wrong every time)

 

Saveasteading. You've highlighted everything I don't know about DIY. Of course mortar mixtures are printed on cement bags but my mind doesn't work in that practical way. Thankfully there is this forum which allows me to remain dumb, but anonymous.

 

[saveasteading]

6 minutes ago, rowingzeus said:

dumb, but anonymous.

Anonymous yes. Willing to learn is not dumb....the opposite.

[Radian]

1 hour ago, rowingzeus said:

Of course mortar mixtures are printed on cement bags but my mind doesn't work in that practical way. Thankfully there is this forum which allows me to remain dumb, but anonymous.

 

 

Sorry to hear about your enforced bed rest! Hope you make a full recovery soon.

What I'd like to add here is that your 20K quote is probably not unreasonable. Bear that figure in mind when approaching the job as a DIY task: It gives you permission to invest in a few essential tools - such as a...

Cement mixer. A couple of hundred quid gets you a new one in the back of your car from a local tool shed. You can save money by buying materials wisely - e.g. get all materials delivered loose, not bagged. You'll need to mix up concrete (to make good the footings) as well as mortar for whatever you build up.

I honestly still think random walling stone is the way to go.

[rowingzeus]

Willing to learn for the first time ever. If only I had applied myself at school etc...

I nearly moaned about the 20k quote but knew it was about right. However, it also gave me a reason to have a go out of necessity so building it the right way and with the right tools will always be cheaper but will also be the right way.

Plans are afoot.

Thanks gents (and ladies if any of you are. Can never tell in these difficult times)*

 

* Any unintended offense comes free of  charge.

 

[rowingzeus]

Covid free(ish). That came out of the blue.

I have another question before I get back to it and I've attached a photo which I hope you can see and understand. When compared to the photo which I first posted, it shows a close-up at another angle of the left side wall and steps footings. On the original photo this will be the bottom left corner.

With the old wall and steps removed, the footings are solid, smooth and level but I have a few concerns which I hope somebody can answer.

The footings are clearly labelled. The patio is clearly labelled. The area between the patio and footings indicated by white hatching is gravel drainage.

 

[1] The wall footing is currently level with the patio. Can I still build a new 3 foot high retaining wall on it or should it be below ground level as I keep reading? If I need to remove the old footing and replace it below ground level then I will. I just need to be told. Or will the footing be fine as it is? 

 

[2] I think I'm still laying an inner skin (on the side of the soil) of 7N blocks to assist with strength and to allow water to drain down with the aid of  gravel wrapped in DPM so the wall will be an inner and outer skin. Does that make sense for the purpose of this height of wall and that it is retaining a wet soil garden.

 

[3] If I remove the wall footing will a compacted base of hardcore and sand work just as well? (something I also keep reading a lot about). Do 7N blocks require concrete footing?

 

[4] The right side (top right of my first photo) has crumbled away so I'm removing that anyway which will dictate what I do next. Replace all or remove all wall footings.

 

[5] I'm going to keep the steps footing which is 2 inches above ground level. Am I correct in thinking that the angle of the steps works in my favour and I can secure them easier to the current steps footing? I know what I mean. I hope you do.

 

There's a lot I've added here for your valuable time for which I apologise and also eternally grateful because after this I reckon I'll be able to move forward.

 

Thank you in advance for anybody willing and able to provide any answers.