Class Q driveway

[PaulD]

Hi all, I have a class Q with a 500m "track" to the main road. I'm told that I can't just put down a tarmac or concrete driveway and that it has to be "in keeping" with agricultural use, actually the first 50m or so is tarmac but this services a couple of other properties, after that it's basically a limestone track with grass growing down the middle ! which is only used by the class Q.

 

Which I guess is fine if we were driving LR Defenders or agri vehicles, but we're not ... so what's the best, most stable drive/road material we can put down and still likely to comply with class-Q guidance.

 

Yes, I could informally ask the council I know but thought I'd come here first ! To see if anyone has any real world experience ?

 

Maybe I should have posted this under driveways, but it is a planning question also ? <mod can I post in both ?>

Edited April 21, 2023 by PaulD

[Temp]

Farmers often just lay a lot of hardcore or road planings on farm tracks but I think they need to register an exemption..  

 

https://www.nfuonline.com/assets/6453

 

Not sure if this applies to you. Is the drive a shared farm track or just part of your residential property like most driveways?

 

 

[Temp]

Not sure what thickness would be needed but at 0.2m...

500 x 3 x 0.2 = 300 m^3

That's about 600 tonnes.

 

20 tonne loads on ebay are around £600.

600 * 600/20 = £18,000

Some haggling will be needed.

 

MOT type 3 is water permeable but I don't know it compacts as hard as MOT type 1.

 

 

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Temp

[kandgmitchell]

I'd have to say I've walked along plenty of concrete farm "roadways" when out in the countryside. If you wanted to go down that route then some local evidence of that type of agricultural access might strengthen your arm a bit. However, nearly half a kilometre of concrete road may be a bit dear. The alternative is going to be a compacted crushed stone approach but that's probably not going to be a lot better than what's there. I think I'd decide what I would prefer and then look for evidence of it's use elsewhere and argue my case a bit..... 

[PaulD]

Thanks guys, if we put the cost to one side, yes I agree I've seen plenty of concrete driveways to agri buildings, I'm sure there'd be a case. That said if I could find some MOT solution that was smooth to drive on, needed little maintenance and didn't develop holes after a little use then I'd probs go down this route. Just wondered if anyone had done anything clever like the mesh mats that stop the surface deterioarting over time.

[saveasteading]

The original Macadam road is stone without the bitumen binder. It is very durable for normal forwards driving and highly appropriate for a rural drive.

Easy to repair too.

Beneath that you can have cheaper stone to spread the load.

Discussing with your local quarry can be helpful, and can achieve best value with decent appearance and durability. 

You must decide whether you will allow heavy vehicles to use it.

 

Type 1 is the other good option. It will be smooth when rolled.

[saveasteading]

  On 21/04/2023 at 11:32, PaulD said:

mesh mats that stop the surface deterioarting over time

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These would be sensible, but I would simply use membrane beneath the  stone.

[IanR]

  On 21/04/2023 at 10:39, PaulD said:

Hi all, I have a class Q with a 500m "track" to the main road.

Expand  

 

  On 21/04/2023 at 10:39, PaulD said:

so what's the best, most stable drive/road material we can put down and still likely to comply with class-Q guidance.

Expand  

 

Technically the track is nothing to do with the Class Q (at 500m long it couldn't have been included within the allowable curtilage), The Class Q finishes at the extent of the curtilage (equal or less than the area of the building being converted under the Class Q)

 

  On 21/04/2023 at 10:39, PaulD said:

 I'm told that I can't just put down a tarmac or concrete driveway and that it has to be "in keeping" with agricultural use, actually the first 50m or so is tarmac but this services a couple of other properties, after that it's basically a limestone track with grass growing down the middle

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It sounds like the "track" is established. ie. it's been there for some time and was previously agricultural use for access to the building that has now been converted under Class Q?

 

Hopefully that's the case, otherwise you'll need to get planning permission for the track itself. Even farmers don't get permission for a new track under PD.

 

If planning is approved for a new track, then the topping to that track is captured within the planning permission. Assuming this track has never had formal planning, but is permitted by its historic use as a track, then I wouldn't drastically change its appearance, or size (width) without asking the LPA via a Certificate of Lawful Development. It would be an expensive error if the LPA took a position that a change you make is "not in keeping".

If it's a limestone track, how bout recreating it with a plastic grid system, on a prepared base. something like.

 

https://www.sure-green.com/technical-area/technical-ground-reinforcement/technical-pp50-paver/pp50-design-guidelines-gravel.html

Edited April 21, 2023 by IanR

[saveasteading]

  On 21/04/2023 at 12:09, IanR said:

how bout recreating it with a plastic grid system, 

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I've done lots of this for car parks. Very successful with cars only, but gets trashed when bigger vehicles run on it. Then you need the appropriate grids at double the cost.

A bit strange to use on bends, using plastic square modules.

Quite expensive too.

[Temp]

MOT can vary a lot depending on what its made from. Our builder liked to use one based on crushed limestone. That sets like concrete if its got a lot of fines in it, but the surface can become pretty slippery when wet. 

[saveasteading]

  On 21/04/2023 at 13:26, Temp said:

MOT can vary a lot depending on what its made from

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MOT type 1 is to a strictly controlled specification, specifically to provide certainty. It covers grading of material and hardness. I think angularity too.

I'd be surprised for there to be inferior material...unless described as an "equivalent".

 

Having said that, there is some confidence in having granite or hard limestone,  rather than crushed gravel.

 

You are right about slipperiness if the limestone turns to dust. That would imply too much fines on top. Ie not properly mixed A bit mucky too.

[Dave Jones]

planeings  is what you need. £250ish for an 8 wheeler load. compact down lovely.

[LSB]

Our track is 120m, so much less than yours, but we had the same stipulation, cannot be changed.

As we had a lot of excess concrete from our Class Q, this has been crushed and 'dumped' on the driveway, which is also a slope.

No issues with using it, except for transit vans if it's been very wet.

My audi goes up there quite happily.

Is yours flat

 

The grass still grows on ours during the summer and it does look a lot better (in my opinion) than having a road.

 

[gc100]

I’d be using crushed concrete as well . We did and it goes down very hard and is stable at about 200mm depth. Type 1 on top would make it smoother but I don’t think it’s worth the extra cost. 
 

Having said this I used to live up about 700m lane that was just stony soil and used to get really rutted up and pot holed over time. Both me and wife had cars and never had trouble driving up it so long as you looked where you was going. Once a year someone would fill I  the worst of the holes with some mot/crush