Two questions - I'm a newbie

[Adrian_london]

Hi all

 

I have two main questions I'd like to ask you all. I'm totally new to all of this. I have solar panels and battery storage (23kwh). I am looking at getting an ASHP installed. I approached Octopus Energy and they have quoted me £6,100 for a Daikin system. This includes the water cylinder, any radiators and all labour. Apparently, if I pay £500 within seven days of the quote they will hold the price quoted. Once the £500 is paid, they will survey my home. If I go ahead with it, the £500 will be taken off the final bill.

My two questions are as:-

 

1) Do you think the price will go down over the next six months? I'm not in any dire need to get it done immediately. Ideally I'd like it done before next winter.

2) Should I hold off and wait for the RED ashp? Will it be very expensive for the RED ashp compared to the Daikin?



TIA

[JohnMo]

1, no

2, what size heat pump are you being quoted and does the RED, come in that size?

 

[ReedRichards]

1. No
2. No.  Any heat pump that boasts about being capable of heating water to high temperatures rings alarm bells for me.

[ProDave]

Based on a recent thread, if you pay the £500 deposit, pay it on a CREDIT CARD.

[sharpener]

43 minutes ago, Adrian_london said:

Hi all

 

I have two main questions I'd like to ask you all. I'm totally new to all of this. I have solar panels and battery storage (23kwh). I am looking at getting an ASHP installed. I approached Octopus Energy and they have quoted me £6,100 for a Daikin system. This includes the water cylinder, any radiators and all labour. Apparently, if I pay £500 within seven days of the quote they will hold the price quoted. Once the £500 is paid, they will survey my home. If I go ahead with it, the £500 will be taken off the final bill.

My two questions are as:-

 

1) Do you think the price will go down over the next six months? I'm not in any dire need to get it done immediately. Ideally I'd like it done before next winter.

2) Should I hold off and wait for the RED ashp? Will it be very expensive for the RED ashp compared to the Daikin?



TIA

 

1. Not very likely. Starting now to get it done and snagged before next heating season I would plough straight on, there may yet be a lot of scope for delays of various kinds. Do we infer that if you pay the £500 and then do not go ahead after the survey it will be forfeit?

 

Can you post a few details about your house (date, construction, total sq m)? What information was the £6100 based on, if they are willing to hold the price even before they have done the survey? Smacks a bit of desperate marketing to me.

 

[JamesPa]

I assume this is after deducting BUS.  Octopus are 'productizing' hp retrofits and, from what I have heard, are doing a reasonable job.  Hopefully they will destroy the business model of the frenzy feeders in the market, which appear to be the majority.

 

If they will hold the price irrespective of what they find in the survey (or they give you the option to get your money back if they can't hold the price) it's almost certainly a good deal.  If someone offered me that (subject to the above) I would take it.  Unfortunately my house doesn't fit their current profile.

[Adrian_london]

Firstly, thank you for all of your replies.

I live in a 3 bedroom end of terrace 1930's house. I have a 49sqm rear extension which is insulated to 2020 standard. I do not know of the room sizes of the rest of the house. I have wet underfloor heating in the extension and regular radiators in the rest of the house. I have tiny polystyrene balls as cavity wall insulation.

[ProDave]

Many of us are watching this with interest. Please keep us posted with progress, good or bad.

 

Most of us will be hoping that Octopus break the mould and manage to give affordable ASHP installations that work, in all types of housing.  If they succeed in providing a cost effective install on an older property like this then ASHP's will be a viable alternative to boilers.

 

 

[JamesPa]

2 hours ago, Adrian_london said:

Should I hold off and wait for the RED ashp

Does anyone know if Octopus are actually intending to turn the RED design into a product.  So far as I can see nothing has changed on the RED website since they bought it. 

 

I suspect RED was quite small and Octopus may have bought them for the expertise and maybe floorspace.  A few people who actually understand the engineering and design of ASHPs, and can therefore go beyond reading the specs, might be really valuable to Octopus in negotiating with manufacturers and as consultants on the design of their installs.  For example, this expertise would allow Octopus to bypass all of the backside-covering in the manufacturers documentation, and thus install solutions with fewer unnecessary components and install tasks.  

 

Just speculation, I only know whats been said in public, which isn't a lot!

[Adrian_london]

So, I have decided to take the plunge and go for the ASHP. I will be contacting Octopus in the next few days to arrange the survey and pay the £500 deposit.

 

So, I have 3 electric cars, solar panels and battery storage. Hopefully, in the very near future, I'll have ASHP. I do not have a green bone in my body!!!!! Everything I do is because the maths makes sense. I can honestly say that if I didn't have battery storage, I wouldn't bother doing it.

 

Through regular calculations, I am Mr Average. Normal yearly usage is 12,000kwh of gas. That would cost me £1237. Apparently, I will need 4000kwh of ASHP electricity over the year to equate the same gas usage. Due to Intelligent Octopus and my 23kwh of battery storage, it will cost me £400 for the same usage. Also, it means my home will be a constant 20/21 degrees throughout the whole day (well 22 hours).

No doubt someone will tell me otherwise, but this is really back of the fag packet calculations.

[ReedRichards]

My, that's a lot of battery storage - and not so much need for it without the heat pump, I would have thought.  Or do you have some sort of V2H system where a car battery doubles up as a home battery?

[Adrian_london]

24 minutes ago, ReedRichards said:

My, that's a lot of battery storage - and not so much need for it without the heat pump, I would have thought.  Or do you have some sort of V2H system where a car battery doubles up as a home battery?

I bought the system with 13.4Kwh. I have added another 9.5Kwh because I knew I was looking into an Air Source Heat Pump.

I'm hoping that 23Kwh is going to be enough. I think with the Octopus Schedule I should be ok. If I can add some juice to the batteries during the day (even if it's just a few Kwh's) that should be enough to see me through the winter period without having to use National Grid juice

[ReedRichards]

I'm not familiar with the Octopus offerings; I don't have a smart meter so they're not available to me.  Presumably you need 20 kWh or so to recharge your batteries; does octopus give you long enough on their cheap rate to achieve this?  My old oil boiler used to use approximately 20,000 kWh per year and on the few coldest days of last winter it used over 40 kWh in a day so I suspect there may be a few days when you have to draw some electricity at peak rate.  But the economics of heat pumps is that they are cheap to run most of the time which compensates for the few expensive days in unusually cold weather.

[patp]

Following.

[Marvin]

On 07/04/2023 at 16:25, Adrian_london said:

I have solar panels

Hi @Adrian_london

 

I'm trying to understand the maths.... what amount of KWs in total are your panels??  Do you have an 8kW system??

 

Having PV and ASHP is always better than just one or the other.

Edited April 11, 2023 by Marvin

[SteamyTea]

KW, kwh, and other combinations.

 

Grrrrrr

[JamesPa]

16 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

KW, kwh, and other combinations.

 

Grrrrrr

This is the current headline article on the renewableheatinghub.  Shocking indeed.

 

https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/shocking-truth-kw-and-kwh-are-not-the-same-thing

[SteamyTea]

23 minutes ago, JamesPa said:

Shocking indeed

Yes, and often means people buy an over specified system.

 

I do think we should sell, trade, and discuss energy by the joule, MJ or GJ, would save a lot of confusion.

Some petrol stations still don't have temperature compensation on their pumps. That means you pay more to go a lesser distance.

And if you listen to gas and oil traders they use therm and barrel. And often you don't know if the price is USD, EURO or Sterling.

Jacob Rees-Mogg may love all that stuff, I prefer a simpler live with just 7 definitions.

 

Length - meter (m)

Time - second (s)

Amount of substance - mole (mole)

Electric current - ampere (A)

Temperature - kelvin (K)

Luminous intensity - candela (cd)

Mass - kilogram (kg)

[Marvin]

1 hour ago, SteamyTea said:

KW, kwh, and other combinations.

 

Grrrrrr

Hi @Adrian_london

 

Only a Typo! kWs Kilowatts

M

[JoeBano]

I’m on octopus agile and this morning at 1am the price of electricity was -5.46 (p/kWh) with that battery storage you will be laughing. It was super low until 5am going to 17 (p/kWh) 

[Adrian_london]

On 11/04/2023 at 11:57, JoeBano said:

I’m on octopus agile and this morning at 1am the price of electricity was -5.46 (p/kWh) with that battery storage you will be laughing. It was super low until 5am going to 17 (p/kWh) 

I'm on Intelligent Octopus. I'm not sure what I'm going to do when it comes to changing tariffs. I'll wait and see