What are your thoughts on this project estimate?

[James Frome]

1 minute ago, James Frome said:

Thanks for the thoughts. 

The technical designs are not complete yet. This cost plan was based on a number of conversations with the architect and semi-detailed drawings.

Therefore, I am not going to jump the gun too much as there are a lot of provisional sums. 

I will give further updates off our conversation together tomorrow. 

For now, I have sent this email to the team: 

"

Dear ....

 

We are looking forward to our meeting tomorrow.

 

So everyone is singing off the same hymn sheet, and so you understand our perspective and firm position, we are particularly conscious around the financing of this project. 

 

We bought the house for £600,000. We have now spent £693,000 including architects fees, stamp duty and other costs. We are assuming the structural engineer and party wall process will cost around another £7000. This brings the cost up to £700,000. 

 

We have a maximum total budget of £1,250,000 (including VAT). We estimate the house with the small extension room to be worth £1,300,000. We therefore are firmly targeting £500,000 (including VAT) as our total build cost with £50,000 leftover as a backup in case of unforeseen issues. If the small extension room isn't given planning permission, the house will be estimated at £1,250,000, and therefore our maximum total budget will be £1,200,000. 

 

If we assume the house is 128m squared, including the small extension room, then the total renovation / build cost per square metre has to be £3900 (including VAT). This means, if we assume the VAT to come in at 10% overall (as some will be 5% and some will be 20%), then the total cost per square metre before VAT has to come in at £3500. 

 

It is as simple as that, and our decision making flows from this premise. We will have to make some compromises clearly, but we are confident we can achieve a mid-high range finish with this budget. 

 

We hope this is clear, and we are looking forward to chatting through this tomorrow 🙏

 

Best,

 

James & Grace"

 

A small saving grace is that the figure did include full interior design (by the architect). It did not include support through the works themselves. 

[Thorfun]

I’m sorry to say but it sounds like your architect and builder are riding the gravy train here! I simply can’t believe the costs involved. If your letter does the trick and you get it built for £500k and it’s valued at £1.3m then you’ll get an offer around £1.25m. Then with estate agent fees and conveyancing and rent paid during the build, interest on any loans etc I can’t see you still walking away with any kind of profit. Even if you did make £50k is it worth it for the time and stress!?

 

I wish you the best of luck with it all and hope you end up finding a team that aren’t taking you for a ride.

 

😢

[Jilly]

Might you not find yourself wishing you had a house and garden when the baby grows a bit?

[ETC]

1 hour ago, James Frome said:

This is something to keep an eye on - to what extent are they double counting? Thanks for raising.

I think you need to get a handle on what professional services you are being provided with for the fee you are paying/have paid if you haven’t already done so.

 

I presume you have a contract for services and an itemised cost of the professional services provided?
 

Apologies - I am presuming the cost estimate was prepared by your design team? 
 

Your letter looks good and I think it lays out your total final budget that you have and are prepared to put to this project.

 

Again - I presume the design team (architect, QS and SE etc) are taking this project to completion and hand-over with a full professional service including contract administration and inspections?

 

While I appreciate that the cost estimate is not firmed up I think you are on the right track with your letter and it should concentrate their minds going forward.

 

I would suggest that the cost estimate is revised on a regular basis as the production information is put together so that you get an as accurate as possible cost estimate before you tender your project.

 

You mention an extension - get that element costed separately in your cost estimate documents so that you can easily extract it from the cost estimate either before you tender or a bill of reductions exercise.

 

Don’t forget CDM any any costs associated with that.

 

Good luck.

[James Frome]

On 21/03/2023 at 08:56, ToughButterCup said:

 

Its really encouraging to see you engage with our feedback. 

I think you now have the hardest job of all: building trustworthy working relationships with a set of experienced professionals and tradesfolk. That will take time, and luck.

 

And, reading between the lines - is this a renovation? Or is it a knockdown? Old houses are good at hiding nightmares.

We are taking it back to brick before renovating. 

[Sparrowhawk]

On 21/03/2023 at 14:40, James Frome said:

It sounds like we may need to pivot on the cork insulation. I have noted down your recommendation for the conversation with the architects tomorrow. 

Hi @James Frome how did your meeting with the architects go?

[Lofty718]

James you are having your pants pulled down here and are being rogered left right and centre

 

50k to an architect to design a maisonette is absolute batshit crazy I cannot beleive you paid that. You could get an architetural technician to provide you with some good plans for 3k. It's just a maisonette there is only so much you can do with it.

 

I knew the quote was crazy when I got down to the scaffolding line and it's 17k + vat. A tinhat roof and scaffold in London is 6k maybe less.

 

It should cost 300k maximum and I know builders who could do it for that. The mistake you made is telling the builder how much you're willing to spend, you should never do this. I went to Wren kitchens and told them I had a 25k kitchen budget and guess what they designed me a 25k kitchen.... ended up getting it or half that in Howdens.

 

Also those taps you posted are not even mid range they are low end garbage. Mid range would be crosswater/grohe.

 

You should put this on hold and do a lot of learning and researching or this could end very badly, if the architect hasn't done the work yet you should cancel them and pay them 10k and start from scratch with a new architect and builder. I'm sure everyone here would be willing to help and give you advice.

Edited March 27, 2023 by JoeyF

[Lofty718]

Is this a leasehold property aswell, do you have permission from the freeholder and other owners in the building? this could also get expensive and messy. There are so many things wrong here

 

However, 650 does seem a good price for the property. I would love to live in Camden.

 

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/details/england-81279772-11663236?s=3f879f603b1de1ec213d7cb9e0d67dde6bb7fd55656843129274795cf8e6c34d#/

 

This one on your road went for 1.635 million for a 4 floor house.

 

With some detective work I found your contractor/ 'friends' company information. For the last few years they have been 200-300k in the red on companies house. This year they are 100k up, maybe they found a gold egg to milk and are looking to line you up as their next one

 

The projects on their website are very high end, but these are all in areas that are MUCH more expensive than yours that command higher budgets with their underground swimming pools and the like, none of your neighbours would be spending that kind of money. It is Kensington and Chelsea and Mayfair money not Camden. Kentish town is not even the nicest part of Camden.

Edited March 27, 2023 by JoeyF

[Mr Punter]

15 hours ago, JoeyF said:

maybe they found a gold egg to milk and are looking to line you up as their next one

 

I nominate this for the Buildhub "Best Mixed Metaphor".  Love it!

[JamieG]

On 21/03/2023 at 14:40, James Frome said:

It sounds like we may need to pivot on the cork insulation. I have noted down your recommendation for the conversation with the architects tomorrow. 

 

For a historic building you should be using something breathable like cork, not plastic non breathable PIR. 

[James Frome]

On 27/03/2023 at 23:38, Lofty718 said:

Is this a leasehold property aswell, do you have permission from the freeholder and other owners in the building? this could also get expensive and messy. There are so many things wrong here

 

However, 650 does seem a good price for the property. I would love to live in Camden.

 

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/details/england-81279772-11663236?s=3f879f603b1de1ec213d7cb9e0d67dde6bb7fd55656843129274795cf8e6c34d#/

 

This one on your road went for 1.635 million for a 4 floor house.

 

With some detective work I found your contractor/ 'friends' company information. For the last few years they have been 200-300k in the red on companies house. This year they are 100k up, maybe they found a gold egg to milk and are looking to line you up as their next one

 

The projects on their website are very high end, but these are all in areas that are MUCH more expensive than yours that command higher budgets with their underground swimming pools and the like, none of your neighbours would be spending that kind of money. It is Kensington and Chelsea and Mayfair money not Camden. Kentish town is not even the nicest part of Camden.

Hi @Lofty718, 

We are the freeholders

I will have a look on companies house. Is there anything of use we can glean from the information on there?