VAT reclaim experience and strong recommendation !

[simon45089]

I got planning permission for conversion of three barns into a home in 2007. I converted a small byre, part of that project, in 2010 to comply with the condition to start work within 3 years.  Building control signed the building off, which in hindsight was a mistake as It should have been part of the whole project and signed off when the rest was finished.

 

Fast forward to 2022 and the entire project was nearly finished ( I was forced to get my Architects Certificate signed prematurely as the Architect was retiring at 88 !)

I didnt know if I could make a  successful VAT claim because the project had essentially started in 2010, been signed off, and no claim with the required 3 months made.

I came across Andrew after some online searching.

 

Andrew McDonald MAAT FCCA

SELF BUILD VAT

33 Ocean Way, Pennar, Pembroke Dock, Pembrokeshire SA72 6RA

Tel: 01646 687599

 

He is a self builder, and an accountant. He talked me through the rules and advised that I had a good chance of a claim, on all the building work EXCEPT the small byre completed in 2010. He was clearly used to challenging the revenue- in court if necessary, if he felt they were not applying the rules correctly.

I sent him all my invoices, and he prepared the spread sheets and made the claim, with appropriate covering letter.

 

As my build wasnt finished entirely due to my elderly Architect forcing my hand, I continued to rack up bills after the claim was made, which had significant VAT attached.

After about six months of waiting for my VAT refund- to no avail, I contacted Andrew and mentioned I had more bills. 

He argued that the claim process was a two way street, and it was unreasonable for the revenue to refuse to add these claims to the original claim, as they had been keeping me waiting so long.

 

A further collection of invoices was submitted, the VAT element of which, came to over 3K.

Twelve months after Andrew lodged my claim with HMRC, I received a full payout of 16K, with no queries or rejections. I am of course delighted, and felt I should share the details of this superb professional contact.  Andrews fee was a very modest £500.00. 

This account is entirely my own personal experience and I have no other relationship with Andrew other than as client. In fact I have never even met him in person !

I hope my experience is of interest to other self builders.      Simon.

 

 

[saveasteading]

Well done you, and good infornation for all of us.

[nod]

The vat claim is so simple to do yourselves 

Especially if you have everything on a spreadsheet 

[jack]

13 minutes ago, nod said:

The vat claim is so simple to do yourselves 

Especially if you have everything on a spreadsheet 

 

@nod, did you read the first post? This comment alone should make it clear this was far from a standard reclaim:

 

1 hour ago, simon45089 said:

the project had essentially started in 2010, been signed off, and no claim with the required 3 months made.

 

HMRC has repeatedly refused self-build VAT reclaim applications that are far less outside their usual expectations than this one.

 

In short, the process is "simple" only if your situation meets every one of HMRC's expectations, including several that are not listed in the forms or their own guidance and instructions.

 

1 hour ago, simon45089 said:

This account is entirely my own personal experience and I have no other relationship with Andrew other than as client. In fact I have never even met him in person !

I hope my experience is of interest to other self builders.

 

While BuildHub is generally non-commercial, there's no problem with long-standing members giving honest reviews of their experiences. I know at least a couple of other members have used Andrew with success.

[nod]

54 minutes ago, jack said:

 

@nod, did you read the first post? This comment alone should make it clear this was far from a standard reclaim:

 

 

HMRC has repeatedly refused self-build VAT reclaim applications that are far less outside their usual expectations than this one.

 

In short, the process is "simple" only if your situation meets every one of HMRC's expectations, including several that are not listed in the forms or their own guidance and instructions.

 

 

While BuildHub is generally non-commercial, there's no problem with long-standing members giving honest reviews of their experiences. I know at least a couple of other members have used Andrew with success.

Still very simple to submit 

[jack]

13 minutes ago, nod said:

Still very simple to submit 

 

What's that got to do with this thread though?

[nod]

2 minutes ago, jack said:

 

What's that got to do with this thread though?

😂😂😂

[simon45089]

I  successfully made a VAT reclaim on a previous self build, which was straightforward and did not require professional assistance.  This case was far from straightforward, and I hope it demonstrates the benefits of expert advice being valuable when required.

[Alan Ambrose]

Yeah, I think it's a good example of a out-of-the-ordinary situation that HMRC felt they should challenge. Then a professional getting a good result (and earning their fees) by knowing the rules and being prepared to challenge.

 

Congrats and thanks for the commendation.  

[jack]

35 minutes ago, simon45089 said:

I  successfully made a VAT reclaim on a previous self build, which was straightforward and did not require professional assistance.  This case was far from straightforward, and I hope it demonstrates the benefits of expert advice being valuable when required.

 

As you probably know, the main issue (discussed at length in many other threads in this sub-forum) is that HMRC's own guidance is dangerously misleading.

 

The notes accompanying the form say that they generally expect a completion certificate as evidence of completion, but that they will accept a couple of of other documents at the applicant's choice. What they don't say is that if there's any evidence at all that you moved in prior to completion, or even that the house was finished even if you didn't move in, they'll argue that the three months runs from that date, not the date of the completion certificate.

Given the amount of money that could be involved (over £20k for us), it's critical that people are aware of HMRC's tricks.

 

... and that's why I get on my high horse every time someone says "don't worry, it's easy" in this sub-forum.

[ToughButterCup]

5 minutes ago, jack said:

...

As you probably know, the main issue (discussed at length in many other threads in this sub-forum) is that HMRC's own guidance is dangerously misleading.

....

 

And thus the reason why I (and others)  make the effort to support BH members in their applications for refunds from HMRC.

If I, or any members of the teaching teams I worked with, had ever applied  logic the way  HMRC does (consistently inconsistently) , we would have lost our licence to practice.

 

VAT Reclaims from self-builders is too small a Public Policy backwater for politicians to feel its worthwhile putting a bit of stick about. No votes in it.

 

[saveasteading]

1 hour ago, jack said:

If there's any evidence at all that you moved in prior to completion.

 

Does  a temporary habitation certificate count as this date? We are looking at using a self contained 1/4 then will be 6 months or more with the rest.

The bco seems happy to issue one...perhaps we ask if he can turn a blind eye.

[jack]

3 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Does  a temporary habitation certificate count as this date? We are looking at using a self contained 1/4 then will be 6 months or more with the rest.

The bco seems happy to issue one...perhaps we ask if he can turn a blind eye.

 

I don't know and I don't want to advise you in case I'm wrong.

 

I get the impression that HMRC is relying on public records and what you tell them is the date you moved in (the form asks you about this). If the habitation certificate isn't public, HMRC isn't going to know about it to be able to rely on it. However, unless you want to lie on the form where they ask you about the moving in date, the safest thing would be to assume that the earlier of your moving in date and the habitation certificate date is going to start the three month period.

 

One thing you could do is use the habitation certificate as the basis for your claim and submit within three months of that (optional: buy as much stuff for the build as you can before submission). You could then either accept that you can't claim for anything bought after that, or try doing what OP did and add a second claim later while the first claim is still pending. It sounds like you'd potentially have months to do that given the current backlog.

 

Yours is a good example of where seeking help from someone like Andrew makes sense.

[jamieled]

28 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

 

Does  a temporary habitation certificate count as this date? We are looking at using a self contained 1/4 then will be 6 months or more with the rest.

The bco seems happy to issue one...perhaps we ask if he can turn a blind eye.

It can do, although you don't need to use it for a VAT refund application. In the end we used our council tax valuation which came later, essentially buying up al our landscaping materials prior to submitting the claim.  As far as I'm aware HMRC have no knowledge of exactly when the house might be habitable/completed or whether you have a temp. certificate.

 

As @jack mentions though, it's an area which it a bit tricky and so I'd caveat my own advice by saying this is what we did (I think we are in the same LA area) and it worked, but it may not work for others.