Ferdinand Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) Two quick questions. 1 - I have Severn Trent wanting to install a smart water meter. It is in the road not on my property - can I still refuse? 2 - Can a Smart Meter be removed after it has been installed? How long does that right last, and can it be done at switch time? Cheers F Edited July 24, 2017 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 I'm pretty sure you have no say in whether a smart water meter is fitted, as I gather they are being made compulsory in some parts of the UK. Because the thing is outside your boundary, it's also outside your control; the water company can pretty much do what they wish as long as they meet their obligations under the law. The main downside is that smart water meters are intended primarily as a means of introducing variable rate tariffs. The intention of some water companies is to vary the tariff during periods when water resources are limited, as both an incentive for people to use less water and a way for the companies to retain their profit margins whilst selling less water.................. The latter point might be one you can argue against, as it would seem to need a change in contract terms. Whether or not that would be enough to stop the fitting of a smart water meter I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 The one thing they cannot do is use it to cut off your water supply, they are prohibited from doing that with even a manual tap I believe. One thing you can say for sure is that the variable rate tariff will push people into more use of grey water in toilets and the like - much the most sensible thing to do IMO! I am hoping, budget permitting, to have an under garden grey water system for our flushings in the house, Looking at smart meters and factoring in rate rises the cost effectiveness of such a system becomes yet more attractive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted July 24, 2017 Author Share Posted July 24, 2017 3 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said: The one thing they cannot do is use it to cut off your water supply, they are prohibited from doing that with even a manual tap I believe. One thing you can say for sure is that the variable rate tariff will push people into more use of grey water in toilets and the like - much the most sensible thing to do IMO! I am hoping, budget permitting, to have an under garden grey water system for our flushings in the house, Looking at smart meters and factoring in rate rises the cost effectiveness of such a system becomes yet more attractive. We currently have large water butts in both gardens, but may need to plan for more :-). F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 It makes me grateful that we have a borehole supply.................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 3 minutes ago, JSHarris said: It makes me grateful that we have a borehole supply.................. I suspect that these will also be regulated in the future as people work out that your extraction from your borehole could be a source of revenue and actually by extracting it you are stealing it from my (think of me a money grabbing politico) putative borehole 200 miles away, and lets face it water, like air should not be free should it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 1 minute ago, MikeSharp01 said: I suspect that these will also be regulated in the future as people work out that your extraction from your borehole could be a source of revenue and actually by extracting it you are stealing it from my (think of me a money grabbing politico) putative borehole 200 miles away, and lets face it water, like air should not be free should it They are regulated now, but the regulation only applies if you abstract more than 20,000 litres per day. I suspect this will stay as it is, as the hassle involved in trying to charge private borehole owners would be massive, plus there would be no way usage could be reasonably metered (it takes around an hour or so to lift the pump and pipe and drop another one down the hole). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 Probably right Jeremy but as I think Faraday is reported (Lecky 1899) to have said to Gladstone when asked what use a discovery of his would be replied. 'Why sir there is every probability you will soon be able to tax it.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) You have a right to refuse a smart meter according to Which and Ofgem... http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/do-i-have-to-accept-a-smart-meter https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/consumers/household-gas-and-electricity-guide/understand-smart-prepayment-and-other-energy-meters/smart-meters-your-rights Edited July 24, 2017 by Temp 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 And from DEFRA... http://stopsmartmeters.org.uk/official-defra-confirms-smart-water-meters-are-not-compulsory/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted July 26, 2017 Author Share Posted July 26, 2017 Thanks for the replies on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richi Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 Just heard on Radio 4 You And Yours that tonight's Watchdog will "investigate" how smart meter installs are causing house fires. I dare say it'll be an intelligent, insightful, in-depth report. And not at all irritatingly specious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 It would be interesting to know if the issue is the meters themselves catching fire (design or manufacturing fault) , or the installer failing to tighten the terminals properly leading to high resistance joints, heat then fire. I doubt (unfortunately) any of these programs will tell us that. There is / was an "issue" with consumer unit fires, and rather than tackle the issue, they changed wiring regs so all CU's must be non flamable, which in reality means metal. So rather than investigate and fix the problem, the solution was contain it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 Lots of pictures of them: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=electrical+meter+fires&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjs9qfIzqnVAhXKD8AKHbCWDrIQ_AUICygC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richi Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08ylrjj item starts 52 seconds in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 1 hour ago, ProDave said: It would be interesting to know if the issue is the meters themselves catching fire (design or manufacturing fault) , or the installer failing to tighten the terminals properly leading to high resistance joints, heat then fire. I doubt (unfortunately) any of these programs will tell us that. There is / was an "issue" with consumer unit fires, and rather than tackle the issue, they changed wiring regs so all CU's must be non flamable, which in reality means metal. So rather than investigate and fix the problem, the solution was contain it. Three times now I've had to check connections for tightness, after a supposedly competent person signed off the work. I will quickly add that the electrician we used for the main build did a very good job, these three cases were other people. Pretty much every CU I've seen in the past few years has had a prominent notice on it about checking the tightness of connections. If manufacturers feel the need to spell out something so fundamental, then I suspect it indicates there is a widespread problem. The first CU I found with loose connections was by accident. I was playing around with the thermal imaging camera and it showed a hot spot in a small garage CU fitted in the meter box. When I checked it was a couple of hot terminals, where the screws weren't tight. I've since been around and checked and found another few loose screws in the second CU the same chap wired up. If that wasn't enough, I had the CU changed in our old house, as it was an old unit with wired fuses and no RCD, by a different electrician, and after he'd gone I checked and found several slack screws in that one as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richi Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 According to Mark Coles, Technical Regulations Manager at IET, fires can be caused because the installers need to "jiggle the wires around to make the connection." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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